Alonso's Crash

[wesley123]

Except for all kinds of data that other teams surely would find interesting.

Plus, I fail to see the point what there would be to gain from releasing the data?

Like what exactly? What kind of revelations are there to be discovered from the selected telemetry snippets from one corner of a track where half the telemetry represents a crash.

Tire load, temperatures, suspension load etc. etc.

They would stop all the speculation in a heartbeat, telemetry doesn´t lie either unlike Mclaren which was proven before they can lie if they feel it´s necessary.

Seeing how most speculation is about Alonso rather than the actual crash itself it wouldn't clear up anything.

[turbof1]

Even if they gave us some sort of raw telemetry data, there's always the window to discuss if the data was manipulated or whether important data was left out.

Most of us would have even issues reading that data correctly. Can you for instance read on a torque curve where exactly what happened? Some that have experience in a racing team might, but there many out here who do not have experience in interpreting telemetry data correctly. Again that leaves room open for discussion.

Mclaren translated the telemetry data into useful and readable information for us. We can debate indeed if it the information given was correct, but I personally do not think the raw data would be all conclusive. There will always be something to doubt, something to reconsider. I get the distrust towards Mclaren, I really do, but since they are the only source who actually have been giving detailed information, I'd rather believe them then dozens of newspaper quoting a single, none-eye witness source, or a driver claiming it was "weird" only to later clarify he cannot judge it since he was too far.

[JimClarkFan]

@Poolboy: the opinion about the software glitch is actually the first reasonable argument I came across which does not stroke with the information from mclaren.

I don't agree with it, I personally still think it was a gush of wind given others went also off at that corner for the same reason, but a software glitch does make a lot of sense.

It doesn't even necessarily have to be a "glitch". The software determines a big part of the driveability of the car. We don't even know how far Honda advanced with the development of it. It could very well be that the car is a hand full.

It doesn't even have to contradict the theory about wind, but could have happened at the same time. The software not provided comfortable or reliable driveability, and a gush of wind further destabilising the whole car to the point he runs wide.

Thumbs up on that.

Again, the reason why we leave this topic open is to prevent spreading the discussion to the other topics. We can't reasonable lock the test thread, race thread, team thread and several extra opened topics just to kill the discussion. It's better to let this thing die out, out of its own, in one single topic. As it looks now, he'll be participating in Malaysia. I think after that nobody will care anymore to debate this.

I personally am disgusted by the topic itself since it's simply put morbid when people are mainly more concerned with the cause of an accident then the well-being of the driver. It's quite shocking (no pun intended) tbh. However, that is a personal opinion which I'm certainly not going to push through. As a moderator I try to steer the topic to reason and logic, but that is not always possible or a succes.

[PlatinumZealot]

For my closing comment i just wanna Thank God the sheer thickness of his eyebrows prevented further cranial damage! The grid would not be the same with pre-teen fernando driving for macca.

[Tim.Wright]

They would stop all the speculation in a heartbeat, telemetry doesn´t lie either unlike Mclaren which was proven before they can lie if they feel it´s necessary.

It would open the biggest can of worms imaginable. A simple glance at a few data traces is rarely conclusive wether you are solving a handling problem of investigating a crash. If you release data to joe bloe from the internet, no matter how ignorant he is, he will use it to prove in painful detail every aspect of his alien brainwashing theory in a masterclass of pseudocscience and handwaving while simultaneously claiming to be an expert in data analysis and accident construction.

Just look at the mess when someone mistakes a shadow for an air duct on a red bull picture... Happens every year.

[stuartpengs]

I think it's important to make a bit of a distinction here; whilst I'm not comfortable with McLaren's or Alonso's official statements, that doesn't mean to say I blindly sign up to every conceivable conspiracy theory currently doing the rounds. From the day of the accident I thought it (on the face of it) looked a bit bizarre, and I've seen nothing posted here that convinces me otherwise. Given the fact that both David Coulthard and Martin Brundle (widely respected former drivers and commentators) also feel McLaren probably aren't being entirely truthful either only go to reinforce my original gut-feeling that there's something they'd rather not disclose - which is again understandable. If it's car related, why would they, and if it was driver related then Alonso has as much right to privacy as anyone here.

What I will say is though, given that both Alonso and Ron Dennis can be shown as not having second thoughts with giving statements that they're fully aware aren't truthful, just because they say so doesn't make it so, and given the amount of speculation regarding the crash I'm not entirely seeing the point of continually asking for the thread to be closed, as some form of arbitrary 'end of the matter' statement. It isn't, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, surely?

For me, as inconsequential as it is to the world of F1, once Alonso is back in the car in Malaysia I'll feel much happier

[Manoah2u]

Alonso @ entire thread

[Manoah2u]

meanwhile, alonso shows how he got his concussion

[bdr529]

Personal I don't think it is any of our business, I think it's a matter for the Mclaren team, FIA and the GPDA
and when they know they will tell us

Letter From GPDA chairman Alex Wurz to all the drivers
http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/al ... ash-030615

Dear Drivers,
In regards to Fernando's accident:

The impact:‎
The impact forces were in the lower double digit g numbers. Exact details of the g-forces and the time over which such g-forces accrued on the car, the driver and more important on his head has not been disclosed (yet).
Fact gathering - CAR:‎
The ear accelerometers and the cars data recording should give (once again) an important inside into the accident. Currently it is understood that all the safety precautions of the car worked as intended by the rules‎. So all the rumors of electric shock, etc are false.
Fact gathering - DRIVER:
However, to understand the accident, the causes and the consequences to the drivers safety, we need to wait for the medical reports to understand the full picture. But we will give Fernando, his family and the doctors their space they require. I am not in a position to tell you anything about Fernando's medical situation.
Conclusions:
In order to get the full picture and understand the accident as a whole, it will take a little longer, and that goes especially for any potential improvements which might or might not be necessary. The GPDA will keep the dialogue with the FIA and McLaren ongoing and for the time being, we wish Fernando a speedy recovery.
I keep you informed, if in the meantime any of you have questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Best regards,
Alex

[Macklaren]

After the 2013 Abu Dhabi GP, I think, Alonso had a "regulation looking " accident but the photos of him in the hospital looked pretty dire. In fact, rival fanboys were even teasing him for that.

Maybe alonso just needs more medical attention for some reason. It's not a big deal and not a conspiracy.

[Manoah2u]

Fernando Alonso was taken to hospital in the wake of a 150mph incident which saw him experience more than double the G-forces sustained by a fighter jet pilot at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

Alonso, who complained of back pain after the race, in which he finished fifth, was sent to hospital under FIA procedure, but was later given the all-clear.

‘I still have all my teeth,’ Alonso said before he was taken to hospital. ‘The back is obviously a little bit painful because it was a big hit. Hopefully I am OK for Austin.’

did it look like a big crash? no it didnt.




did it have big consequences? yes it did.

could this mean that, despite his testing crash not looking very severe, the aftermath and results similarly be of bigger effect than at first sight might look like? yes it could.

would that explain alonso's injuries? it very well could.

[captainmorgan]

I think the crash was more severe than the "30G or lower double digit" numbers imply. By report, he had a concussion with at least transient retrograde amnesia. Concussion is usually associated with >50G level. G number is not the same as energy absorption. Note there are no energy absorbing crash structures for side impact against a wall, and that it occurred over a long duration. G says nothing about angular acceleration, which can also shear brain structures.

Also, the lack of anything abnormal on CT or MRI is not itself abnormal either. No medical technology is the perfect instant all-knowing oracle people seem to expect. Mild symptoms often may correspond to anything visible on a brain scan.

[Webber2011]

Hi guys, don't post much here basically due to my limited technical knowledge, but something mentioned in this thread caught my attention.

The idea that maybe Nando suffered a stroke.

I have no idea what may have happened, but this to me sounds quite plausible speaking from experience because I had a "mini" stroke back in 2010.

At the time I was driving a forklift, and all of a sudden felt very dizzy.
I had the strangest sensation of falling to my right that overtook every other sense.
I was doing maybe 5km an hour and had time to come to a complete stop before I blacked out, or so I thought.

A co worker witnessed the whole thing and said I didnt fall to the right as I thought, but I did turn to the right before I stopped.
I'm told I was only out for maybe 20 seconds, but when I came to I had no idea what I was doing driving a forklift, couldn't remember my name even.

I was later informed by my gp that the falling, spinning feeling is common and I gripped the wheel and pulled to the right to try and hold myself upright, even though in reality I wasn't falling at all.

Now I'm not saying Nando had the same thing happen.
Just that for me the circumstances are eeirily similar.

[Robbobnob]

A stroke would have been observable on the CT scan

[Mesteño]

Hi guys, don't post much here basically due to my limited technical knowledge, but something mentioned in this thread caught my attention.

The idea that maybe Nando suffered a stroke.

I have no idea what may have happened, but this to me sounds quite plausible speaking from experience because I had a "mini" stroke back in 2010.

At the time I was driving a forklift, and all of a sudden felt very dizzy.
I had the strangest sensation of falling to my right that overtook every other sense.
I was doing maybe 5km an hour and had time to come to a complete stop before I blacked out, or so I thought.

A co worker witnessed the whole thing and said I didnt fall to the right as I thought, but I did turn to the right before I stopped.
I'm told I was only out for maybe 20 seconds, but when I came to I had no idea what I was doing driving a forklift, couldn't remember my name even.

I was later informed by my gp that the falling, spinning feeling is common and I gripped the wheel and pulled to the right to try and hold myself upright, even though in reality I wasn't falling at all.

Now I'm not saying Nando had the same thing happen.
Just that for me the circumstances are eeirily similar.

WOW, it is quite similar.

Sorry, did doctors tell you if you can't do anything like extreme sports? Is it anything usual, or it can happen to you again?

And how was the recovery? How much time in hospital?

Thanks for telling us your story.