transcript: alonso vs massa after Europe GP!

[FLC]

That was clear for me in the Europe GP in Massa's case, like in Heidfeld's (when he hits Schumacher out).

You see, that's exactly what I mean. Ralf was quoted on autosport.com saying:

With the incident with Nick, I made a little mistake in the corner before and he was able to close up and then he made a move at the final corner and we collided. In general he is a very fair driver but these things happen in racing. It was a racing incident.

Now Ralf maybe lost his edge and he isn't one of the best out there, but he sure knows about racing more than we do. He admits making a mistake which might as well started this "racing incidnet", in his own words.
Alonso made the pass in a difficult place, on a wet and slippery track and prob. could well see how Massa was struggling with his car. He knew it wasn't going to be easy, but still chose to do it, which makes his pass all the more great. That's racing, or at least until he decided to start whine about it, and ruined his moment of glory, at least in my eyes.
He could have waited for a better, safer opportunity, he had the time, but he chose to make it there, and I'm glad he did, but to blame Massa for trying to deliberately trying to get him off the track is ridiculous. In Massa's case, like in Heidfeld's.

Same goes for MS-Fisi incident in China last year. More or less the same conditions, Fisi made a mistake and then "forced" MS to put a wheel or 2 on the grass. I dont think you'll find many Ferrari fans saying Fisi tried to get him off deliberately, but hey, it all depends on which side the red car is.

[mx_tifoso]

Alonso was much faster than him, mastering the conditions Massa couldn't bare and once he passed him Massa desperately does that. Learning to drive in wet would be smarter thing to do.

It is not that Massa was unable to master the conditions, it was that he was running on a set of bad tires (vibrations). He was one of the few that did not go off during the race. I dont know what Massa could have done better to impress in these conditions.

Massa gets overtaken by Alonso, he then congradulates him after the race; that is being a good sport. But Alonso bringing back the race incident does nothing to better the situation. Alonso won the race, what more could he want. He complains about how both could have failed to finish the race, but they both FINISHED. What else matters then? Obviously he complains in both situations: when winning and loosing.

Who understands people like that? Certainly not Massa, nor do I. With the race won, go celebrate on the podium, spray MS if you want, but dont complain about the circumstances of your victory.

Racing will be racing. Incidents will always happen, but when you question the intregrity of a person you will most surely see their defensive side come out, especially during the emotion filled period post race*. Therefore, I side with Massa. Massa's reaction is justifiable in my eyes. Although Massa could have had a bit more self-control, both are still reasonably young, time will do its job.

*DaveKillens

[mahesh248]

Why can't alonso just stop doing the crape he dose, it would be much better if he had told massa , nothing at all , screws up his own integrity , but i enjoyed watching what ever they were talking , hope their will be more moments like that

[Belatti]

I dont like them much, but still recognize Alonso´s superior level, he is a great driver and a big criyng baby. We he arrived to pits he pointed the car sidepod and began making gestures...

Remember times when Gilles and Arnoux touched cars like, I dont remember now... 5 times in 3 or 4 laps? in an istorical battle, and nobody wanted to kick nobodys face

NOW, I´ve already posted this:
"I WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE STRONGER CARS SO THEY WOULD BATTLE AND TOUCH WITHOUT BREAKING LIKE GLASS "

[modbaraban]

NOW, I´ve already posted this:
"I WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE STRONGER CARS SO THEY WOULD BATTLE AND TOUCH WITHOUT BREAKING LIKE GLASS "

then JPM would consider coming back

[Belatti]

The last "ALMOST PUNCHING" episode I saw in F1 was the SCHUMACHER-COULTHARD in 98'SPA... but in my humble opinion... Schumacher was more like theater actor than a men-in-anger... he wanted to show Tifosis that he had blood in his veins!!!

[mahesh248]

^^^^^ come on man , m sure shumi was angry ..was his younger days in life , can belive that 10 years are gonna pas by after that ..

[mep]

I totaly agree with FLC.

Massa is a very fair driver and he waited for Alonso to shake hands
and to concratulate and what did Alonso he blamed Massa for beeing a
cheater who tried to kick him of the track. And again Alonso
showed his arogant way of winning a race and making the other drivers down, like with his strange dancing moves he makes after every victory.

What is the purpose of those moves he always makes.
Those are little needle stiches to the other drivers and we don't
know what else he does when the camera in't there.

I hope that once a Montoya or Paul Tracy type of racer comes who
simply gives him a beat.

[dumrick]

Remember times when Gilles and Arnoux touched cars like, I dont remember now... 5 times in 3 or 4 laps? in an istorical battle, and nobody wanted to kick nobodys face

Dijon 1979 was a totally different situation, with two drivers that respected integrally a code of conduct in racing driving. Only that way you can have good fights: knowing that the guy in front gets the line, knowing that your opponent will leave you room, as little as possible for sure, but enough for you to fight him. And that these rules won't be broken, unless there is a mistake from one of the drivers, but that he won't do it on purpose. I really miss those days, when there were dirty drivers, but you could tell them apart and they weren't high profiled, so the standard remained.

Unfortunately, after Senna in the 80's and, mainly, Schumacher in 90's, those codes of conduct were irrevocably broken and opportunism took place. And Massa is just one of the many that thinks that there isn't a problem in trying to resist an overtaking maneuver, as long as he remains on track. If there is no effect in his move, then "naturally" the other has nothing to complain about. Is all about ethics, in the end...

[mep]

By the way there is a topic about how to make the sport more
competitive/ atractive.

Once I can say by complaining about the others and allways giving
punishments to the drivers if they make a little mistake or to
drivers get a little contact on track you will destroy the sport.

What is so bad if two cars get a little contact or when a car gets put
back on track so he can move on.
It makes a better show and thats importand in F1.
You complain that there is a lack of overtaking but If two
cars hit at a try you start to search somebody to blame and whant
that he gets punised.

[FLC]

I just wish all of you complaining on Massa's move were consistent enough to say the same things on Hamilton's move at the start of the british GP, which even on ITV was compared to MS's doubtful start moves (at least in the eyes of those I'm writing this at) and on Fisichella's move on MS at the Chinese GP last year, which on SPEED TV was referred to as unsporting, as well as other incidents of the same kind.

There are only 2 differences between those incidents and the one between Massa and Alonso. One is that those moves were made on drivers who are men, and not little spoiled whiny boys (and that's not because they drive a Ferrari ) who also understand what racing is all about, and the other is that the drivers who made the moves weren't driving a red car. That's all there is to it.

If Alonso didn't cry foul that loud we would prob. never talk about this, and just enjoy the move on YouTube or PVR or anything else, just like many others that happened before. But I guess when you cry that much, almost each and every race, someone will eventually hear you, even if you're totally wrong.

[KIMI the best]

Personally don't liked Alonso and his way of driving, but I respect him because his is a great driver and on this case I think he is right because you can see from the helicopter that is Massa who suddenly turns right (when he hits Alonso) and then returns too his racing line.

[Tom]

A journalist once wrote about Nigel 'Mansel is such a brave driver, but such a moaner, he should have He Who Dares Whines embroided on his shirts'

sound familiar? Alonso is a stunning driver, esspecially in the wet, but then he puts his bottom lip out and makes a big fuss when someone nudges him. From the angle I saw Massa was catching a slide which caused him to drift into Alonso's sidepod. If he hadn't counter steered he would have gone off the road and probably taken Fernando with him! Alonso, just accept a win, you're fans will like you more.

[pRo]

And again Alonso showed his arogant way of winning a race and making the other drivers down, like with his strange dancing moves he makes after every victory.

Those are little needle stiches to the other drivers

This is hilarious. What's wrong with his moves after a win? Should everyone look as boring as Kimi after they win a race?

Turn the tv off after the race, if it bothers you. I love to see special victory dances, no matter who does them. The whole series needs some colour instead of everyone acting like a clone of each other. It's boring, even if the races should be all that matters.

[checkered]

... the races should be all that matters.

Actually, that should be the third choice in the poll! I have said it before and I'll say it again, the only character I look for in a racer is racing character. I'd barely flinch if someone decided to moon the camera at a press conference as long as the offending chap has something to offer for F1 in terms of racing. And in my books, both drivers discussed here fill that criterion adequately.