Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Manoah2u wrote:
so wait.....how can the Mercedes engine then be so more competitive compared to the disgraceful Renault and Ferrari power units???
because they did a better job ever since.
that's obvious, but if the FiA states they'll judge it on being on equity and fair compared to the competition,
then how can an engine so much more powerfull be homologated if it in reality isn't equal or fair compared to the others,
even if they simply did their job right?
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
The words "equity and fair compared to the competition" are very open ended, it doesn't specify that this is performance related.
Lets say Mercedes have been developing this PU for 3 years and spent in the region of $500M (for example only)!!
Then VW or Honda comes along and only spends 2 years developing their PU and only spend $300M. That's fair, they haven't been developing it for 10 years with an unlimited budget.
Or does the rule explicitly state that it is performace related?
Audi have been in discussion with Red Bull over a 2017 takeover but it is on the backburner at present. There is enthusiasm in the VAG boardroom, but Piech won't have anything to do with Ecclestone and won't commit to F1s ridiculous budgets when the group is on an austerity drive. They will instead focus on a new Endurance & DTM push.
Mateschitz meanwhile doesn't feel F1 can operate as a viable marketing tool anymore. Twitchy bum time for FOM.
Interesting. Bernie has just said on the BBC in an interview with Eddie Jordan that he would stand down immediately to get Audi/VW to enter F1 in the context of buying out Red Bull. Something tells me that wouldn't actually happen though
Bernie wants another German manufacturer or even Engine Manufacturer. Two years ago the rumour just as i was going to Monza was BMW was to enter in 2015, well, 2015 is here and BMW isn't.
The Audi/VAG thing i believe will happen, its just when. Audi/VAG board want Bernie to go, rule changes to the Chassis side and Engine side of things at the FIA. They also want the FIA and FOM to have a 'Berlin wall' between them in F1 as well as both are supposed to serve F1 in very different ways, one the sports police and one its promotor. Audi/VAG want the FIA to properly police F1 in terms of sporting needs as there needs to be a sense of letting the guys race, but clamping down on the more dubious driving efforts, however they want the FIA to police the sport better on a technical side slightly better.
The FOM point is that Bernie must go, as a promotor Audi/VAG think needs to be the guy who is out there promoting the technical advancements, but also promoting the sport in a better light generally. They are the guys who need to also protect the heritage of the sport in Europe and key other territories like Australia, but also by extorting enough money from other nations and the broadcasters as they can. Its about getting that balance correct. Not being seen with King X and Celebrity Y or President Z. The promotor should divvy up the money to all 10+ teams in a fair and just manner in order to run a more profitable F1.
Audi/VAG are good to go, but they want a full overhaul of the sport, not to make it a moratorium on the top 5 at present.
ESPImperium wrote:Its Bernie Vs The Germans again.
Bernie wants another German manufacturer or even Engine Manufacturer. Two years ago the rumour just as i was going to Monza was BMW was to enter in 2015, well, 2015 is here and BMW isn't.
The Audi/VAG thing i believe will happen, its just when. Audi/VAG board want Bernie to go, rule changes to the Chassis side and Engine side of things at the FIA. They also want the FIA and FOM to have a 'Berlin wall' between them in F1 as well as both are supposed to serve F1 in very different ways, one the sports police and one its promotor. Audi/VAG want the FIA to properly police F1 in terms of sporting needs as there needs to be a sense of letting the guys race, but clamping down on the more dubious driving efforts, however they want the FIA to police the sport better on a technical side slightly better.
The FOM point is that Bernie must go, as a promotor Audi/VAG think needs to be the guy who is out there promoting the technical advancements, but also promoting the sport in a better light generally. They are the guys who need to also protect the heritage of the sport in Europe and key other territories like Australia, but also by extorting enough money from other nations and the broadcasters as they can. Its about getting that balance correct. Not being seen with King X and Celebrity Y or President Z. The promotor should divvy up the money to all 10+ teams in a fair and just manner in order to run a more profitable F1.
Audi/VAG are good to go, but they want a full overhaul of the sport, not to make it a moratorium on the top 5 at present.
So Audi actually wants F1 to be a sport??? THE NERVE!!!
They want F1 to be a level playing field, a proper examination. They have passed the technical paper in Le Mans for the past decade and a half with only one slip up in 2009 with Peugoet won. Yes its a Bentley win in 2003, but it was a VAG win and was a Joest win if you know the Bentley Speed 8 back story. The UK Speed 8 was developed in the first Lotus Racing/Team Lotus/Caterham facility in Norfolk. So they don't need to prove they can do it in WEC much more, the law of diminishing returns will catch up on them, and i think Dr Wolfgang Ullrich has a desire to be in F1, but not at any cost in a technical sense and a financial one. Audi compete in WEC for €120m a season for a 3 car entry. I think they want a cost 'cap' in F1 at €200m is the limit they are looking at. At present, the top 4 teams in F1 are at least €110m north of that figure. The others are €40m to €140m south of that. Audi/VAG want a 'do the best with what you have by restriction' and not a 'win at all cost' mentality. Ledgend is, Audi/VAG have a petrol engine to go, but they have also got a Diesel F1 engine (to anger the purists) as well, both of which are able to be up there with the Mercedes at the moment.
Audi LMP program is rumored to be as high as $240 million (220 million euro)
In F1 a 6th place in the championship would give them atleast $80 million taking their budget to $320 million
If they partner with Red Bull they could get an additional $70 million, taking their overall budget to $390 million
As a whole money is not an issue but;
1) political say in the overall scheme of things, as there voice will count for less than that of Ferrari
2) Entry into the competition currently could be difficult however maybe Honda can be indicator
Bernie if serious about getting VAG in can do so by giving them a veto (as Ferrari) in light of the brand and overall achievements in motorsport
