Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015

[turbof1]

I personally believe allowing development throughout the year, within the token system, is actually cheaper. Setting a deadline could lead to costs going exponentionally higher the closer you get to that deadline. Furthermore, it could also lead to taking big risks with reliability. We've seen how Renault messed this up and are now bound to make huge costs to get the engine back into reliable parameters. This would only get worse if you have to rush developments before you reach the deadline.

If you simply allowed any change to the engine after it completed it's allocated races you would better allow for manufactures to catch-up

Actually that's what happening right now. Every time a team wants to use engine updates, reliability or tokens, they need to use a new allocation of the involved PU components. And you only have 4 of each PU component over the season.

[Cold Fussion]

I know that's what is already happening, which is exactly why I think the token system pointlessly hamstrings the engine departments. If they take big risks with reliability and they don't pay off then they pay through either poor performance to save the engine or by taking penalties (exactly the same as it is now), this is just part of the engineering challenge.

[FoxHound]

I know that's what is already happening, which is exactly why I think the token system pointlessly hamstrings the engine departments. If they take big risks with reliability and they don't pay off then they pay through either poor performance to save the engine or by taking penalties (exactly the same as it is now), this is just part of the engineering challenge.

Or use the reliability caveat.

[Cold Fussion]

I know that's what is already happening, which is exactly why I think the token system pointlessly hamstrings the engine departments. If they take big risks with reliability and they don't pay off then they pay through either poor performance to save the engine or by taking penalties (exactly the same as it is now), this is just part of the engineering challenge.

Or use the reliability caveat.

I said before I advocate removing that.

[FoxHound]

But it stands to reason that if a manufacturer can demonstrate an unreliable part, they can change the design to that of something demonstrably more reliable.

If it works and they want to get more performance, they'll need a token for it.

[Cold Fussion]

But it stands to reason that if a manufacturer can demonstrate an unreliable part, they can change the design to that of something demonstrably more reliable.

If it works and they want to get more performance, they'll need a token for it.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I said previously the token system should be scrapped because the engine rules limiting the number of engines per season already prevents manufactures producing hundreds of engines. My system would be you have 4 opportunities to introduce a new engine (of which you're allowed to change everything) and the free reliability updates would be no more. The reasoning being that the manufacturers are already spending the development budget testing every combination to find the set of improvements for the least amount of tokens.

[Mr.G]

Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team 2015 thread...

[PlatinumZealot]

I keep hearing the 'true pace' phrase everytime Mercedes are described. Their true pace is what you see in Qualifying and their true pace in the race was seen in the race in Canada.

They are limited by fuel usage and can only run faster to an extent dictated by the fuel amount left in the tank. Hamilton was 11 seconds up on Kimi after 25 laps which is .44sec a lap faster. Kimi then spun after the pitstop thus destroying any direct comparison possible.

One thing though, Mercedes seem to run their cars to the extreme than Ferrari. Didn't hear much from Ferrari about brake/fuel savings while Mercedes were on the phone all the time.

I disagree with everything you say. Even in qualifying teams have been known to manage their performance: just enough to get pole is good enough.
Radio chats are radio chats - there is strategy in there as well as everywhere. Can only draw conclusions so much.

As it has been said before, the true pace is the one shown when challenged by other cars, consistently ......

I disagreee with you but I agree with him. Remember, in the Canada race Merc maxed out their fuel usage just like the other teams did. If you use all the fuel you are allowed it means everything leading up to that point was your true maximum average pace over the race. Merc could not push any more in than they did when you average the laps- If they ran the car at its absoulte max for any extended period they would be out of fuel before the finish line. On the contrary in a one lap sprint there are no such limits - the car operates to the maximum much more than its average pace over the race. At the end of the day, on low downforce fuel limited tracks Ferrari's Race pace will come closer to Mercedes. It will be a track by track comparison however.

[mclaren_mircea]

I think it's time to end this false myth that Ferrari is closing the gap to Mercedes on race pace based on the Friday free practice simulations. After Bahrain, since Spain, Mercedes gradually pulled away. In Austria in the first stint Vettel was losing time like never before this year. The distance would have much bigger towars 30 seconds if Rosberg wouldn't have reduced the rythm after Hamilton's penalty. At some point the difference was just over 25 seconds, and after it became clear that Hamilton will just bring the car home, while the Ferrari driver was extracting every drop of performance from the car to catch Massa and then to try an overtake on him.

[Spoutnik]

I think it's time to end this false myth that Ferrari is closing the gap to Mercedes on race pace based on the Friday free practice simulations. After Bahrain, since Spain, Mercedes gradually pulled away. In Austria in the first stint Vettel was losing time like never before this year. The distance would have much bigger towars 30 seconds if Rosberg wouldn't have reduced the rythm after Hamilton's penalty. At some point the difference was just over 25 seconds, and after it became clear that Hamilton will just bring the car home, while the Ferrari driver was extracting every drop of performance from the car to catch Massa and then to try an overtake on him.

This myth is kept alive because Ferrari run light compared to the Merc, and in fact the Merc driver especially Lewis hidden their games. Yes, the awful fact is those improvements extented the gap like you said. Let's be honest, Ferrari don't take any risk, on the brakes, on the engine, and also tey can potentially challenge the Merc in qualifying if they turn up the power but they don't have Strat.6/7 mode.

Now,t he first half of the season is almost over, Ferrari had a really good chance of win at the start of the seoncd part with Spa, Monza who are really demanding track on power and top speed, for thoses race Mercedes had announced a brand new PU with the last tokens, more powerful, and Ferrari will get raped again, they will do anything. Singapore is also a great chance of win, furthermore this is the favourite track of Sebastian. Ferrari can challenge the Merc, especially if you take in count the fact of the Merc are at the limit with and extreme car on the heat and they show their weakness and lack of strategy clever, if they don't really believe in themselves, they need to focuses on 2016 season.

[Juzh]

Ferrari don't take any risk, on the brakes, on the engine, and also tey can potentially challenge the Merc in qualifying if they turn up the power but they don't have Strat.6/7 mode.

"strat" is a mercedes specific power related mode. 12 is the lowest power setting, 1 is the highest. 1 is only used for qualifying and even then not until Q3 if possible.
There is no way we can tell what ferrari equivalent is, but I'd say with confidence their max power is significantly higher than merc strat 6/7 which are race modes with much lower power output than strat 1.

Strat 1 in qualifying produced higher top speeds than anyone managed during the race with slipstream.

[F1NAC]

Wheelnut cost Seb podium

Speaking about what happened, he said: "I have to say that Sebastian made a great race. I have to say Mercedes are still strong.

"But we threw away one more time for a stupid piece that we need to fix as soon as possible. This is not the first time and it is not acceptable."

He added: "It was a problem with the wheelnut. It is not the first time so we have now to make sure that it does not happen again.

"It was not a problem of the mechanics – it was our problem and we have to make sure that we fix it."

[Spoutnik]

Ferrari don't take any risk, on the brakes, on the engine, and also tey can potentially challenge the Merc in qualifying if they turn up the power but they don't have Strat.6/7 mode.

"strat" is a mercedes specific power related mode. 12 is the lowest power setting, 1 is the highest. 1 is only used for qualifying and even then not until Q3 if possible.
There is no way we can tell what ferrari equivalent is, but I'd say with confidence their max power is significantly higher than merc strat 6/7 which are race modes with much lower power output than strat 1.

Strat 1 in qualifying produced higher top speeds than anyone managed during the race with slipstream.

Thanks for the information, I don't know the real name of this Qualifying boost. I read also somewhere Merc will use his last tokens for a new powerful engine for high speed race (Monza, Spa).
But now let's be honest about the Italian engine, I don't think the Ferrari engine is so far behind, but IMO, we now the Ferrari team had a great engine who produce half of the performance, but the aero is clearly far behind Mercedes and for the chassis wait for more chassis race. Because when ur engine is good, the brakes looks better and stable (harvesting ERS), you can put more downforce, and with more downforce the chassis is more stable, and the tyre degradation is improve on long run (need less attack and speed in corner). Also MGU-K power deployment is faster, smoother power delivery helps tyre life in acceleration situations, increases acceleration more drivable car especially in wet conditions = makes chassis and aero look good and again less tyre deg.

In fact, the rest of Ferrari team are who ? Sauber a team end the last season with 0 point, and who need some funds, and Manor I don't need to explain and we put this last team out of any comparaison because they use 2014 engine.
Sauber with the situation I explained, and one random paid driver (Ericsson) plus a young rookie (Nasr) is near to Lotus And FI, and above the TR guys in constructor Champ' (31 for FI, 29 for Lotus, 21 for Sauber, 19 for TR).
We can also clearly see those two team Ferrari powered team are clearly high in the table in top speed trap (appart in qualifying when Merc us his OP boost).

I think the Ferrari PU is closer than we expect to the Merc PU (even if Merc focuses on reliability..), that's only Ferrari and Sauber who don't really use him at his best.

[Wayne DR]

Wheelnut cost Seb podium

Most likely second place looking at the lap times. Vettel was around 0.2s faster per lap than both Rosberg an Hamilton on the Prime. He lost between 9.5s and 10s in the stop, and with Hamilton's 5s penalty he could have simply followed him home to take the place! (Maybe even pushing Hamilton into Rosberg at the front...)

[drunkf1fan]

Wheelnut cost Seb podium

Most likely second place looking at the lap times. Vettel was around 0.2s faster per lap than both Rosberg an Hamilton on the Prime. He lost between 9.5s and 10s in the stop, and with Hamilton's 5s penalty he could have simply followed him home to take the place! (Maybe even pushing Hamilton into Rosberg at the front...)

haha, second, seriously? After the pitstop penalty Hamilton knew it was over and backed off, when he did, Rosberg did. Vettel was pushing hard and the cars ahead have no reason to. Almost all year long it's a case of push to the final pitstop, if you haven't managed the undercut or to get a superior tire situation(like Kimi in Bahrain and having faster tire/much shorter stint) and the chance to have 2-3 second a lap faster tires by the end then you back off. Every time, Vettel sticking with Rosberg in China but after the final stop the race was over, he didn't manage to get track position and defend it and after that it was saving the engine, he dropped miles back.

Had Vettel not had the pitstop incident he would have finished a comfortable 3rd with absolutely not the slightest chance of getting within 5 seconds of Hamilton. If the Mercs pushed after the final stop they've have been 15-20 seconds further ahead of Massa easily.