Is Kimi Raikkonen overrated?

[Emmcee]

...on this forum people know what there talking about and not let personal obsessions get in the way of pure fact. It's been a breath of fresh air talking to you all.

This should probably be considered an exception rather than the rule. Driver threads here don't ordinarily go so well.

(And there's still plenty of time for this one to regress toward the mean. )

My own impression is that, along with the natural effects of aging -- Father Time is undefeated -- Raikkonen just hasn't been the same since the formula changed in 2009. Prior to that, he was arguably F1's quickest driver, and I don't think anyone found his racecraft wanting...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M1PcivMGu8

Combined with a low-maintenance personality, he was perhaps the ideal driver. But, for whatever reason, that hasn't translated to the sport's new era.

I think the old formula definitely rewarded sheer talent a bit more than "racing IQ." So, maybe some drivers simply need cars that are too fast to allow for over-thinking. (Massa, too?)

Mate he was fantastic back in the day and that move he pulled around the outside of fisi was pure balls. It's a shame yea that he hasn't found his feet but its the same for everyone and the more rounded drivers tend to do better at these transition changes.

[bhall II]

Agreed. And if you look back at the list of drivers for the 2008 season, most of them didn't last very long in the new formula.

Personally, it's just sorta difficult for me to fault Raikkonen's troubles with making that transition as a driver, because I'm having even more problems making the transition as a fan. (This --- suuuuuucks.)

[Emmcee]

Agreed. And if you look back at the list of drivers for the 2008 season, most of them didn't last very long in the new formula.

Personally, it's just sorta difficult for me to fault Raikkonen's troubles with making that transition as a driver, because I'm having even more problems making the transition as a fan. (This --- suuuuuucks.)

I know what your saying but other drivers that were placed in the same category as Raikkonen based on skill and speed have made the adjustment. It took Vettel a year longer but he is there now but kimi seems to still struggle, it seems to me that it doesn't reward the old style attacking driver. You could say alonso and lewis are attacking drivers but they have found another way. For lewis it was much easier as his car is so much better than everyone else's, alonso on the other hand has shown how versatile he is and dispite the car he has now in no way shape or form justifies the talent he has, it's incredible. Ricciardos the same, to beat seb in what would have been a continuously out of date Redbull based on receiving the updates after seb, just highlights just how good he is and I know this year he is struggling I still think he is driving the wheels if the car and it will only make him a better driver.

[bhall II]

That was mostly just a lighthearted comment on my part. I generally don't care about drivers enough to compare them. Too messy for me.

To keep things nice and easy, I've adopted a motto: "It's always the car."

[PlatinumZealot]

I think Kimi is simply past his prime. A driver's form is not constant over his career so we have to speak of them in the right context. It is my feeling that Kimi must save face and retire from Ferrari. He is doing okay... but okay looks really poor when the other car is driven by Sebastian Vettel. All of the little mistakes and inadequacies show up under the light. I bet the money is very nice but it just won't do him good to continue being embarrassed like this. There will be no more wins and championships from here on out so why continue? He can be happy that he retired a Ferrari champion and have a good send off.

[Moose]

My gut feeling is that both Kimi and Felipe Massa ended up overrated in the late 2000s era, due to an excellent Ferrari flattering their abilities.

My bet is that their form has been reasonably constant over their career, but that in 2007 Alonso and Hamilton were in a worse car than Kimi and Massa. Kimi became WDC only due to having a) a superior car and b) two excellent drivers taking points off each other in the competitor team. In 2008 my bet is that the Ferrari was significantly faster than the McLaren, and that the driver made the difference as to who became WDC.

We saw both Massa and Kimi as excellent drivers back then. Since coming out of such good cars, or being put side by side with Alonso, they've both proven to be somewhat mediocre.

[JimClarkFan]

Prior to that, he was arguably F1's quickest driver, and I don't think anyone found his racecraft wanting...

Based on what?

[r_b_l]

Bring back the older formula, without all the artificial racing "enhancements" and I'm sure he would be more comfortable.

I think he still has the skill & speed, just not with these new cars, especially now when the drivers spend a good portion of the race being a strategist with Fuel & Tyre management and changing settings on the steering wheel (almost) every lap.

Other drivers have been able to adapt, Kimi has done a good job, but not as good as other, newer drivers to the sport.

Give him a car he can drive to the max, not worry about a tyre that is designed to perform poorly, a DRS system etc etc & we would see a different Kimi.

[langwadt]

Bring back the older formula, without all the artificial racing "enhancements" and I'm sure he would be more comfortable.

I think he still has the skill & speed, just not with these new cars, especially now when the drivers spend a good portion of the race being a strategist with Fuel & Tyre management and changing settings on the steering wheel (almost) every lap.

Other drivers have been able to adapt, Kimi has done a good job, but not as good as other, newer drivers to the sport.

Give him a car he can drive to the max, not worry about a tyre that is designed to perform poorly, a DRS system etc etc & we would see a different Kimi.

yeh also my feeling that he is the kind of guy that could jump into anything with wheels and be right up there, but fiddling with knobs and buttons in a car that doesn't think can win it seems he can't really be bothered

[Emmcee]

Bring back the older formula, without all the artificial racing "enhancements" and I'm sure he would be more comfortable.

I think he still has the skill & speed, just not with these new cars, especially now when the drivers spend a good portion of the race being a strategist with Fuel & Tyre management and changing settings on the steering wheel (almost) every lap.

Other drivers have been able to adapt, Kimi has done a good job, but not as good as other, newer drivers to the sport.

Give him a car he can drive to the max, not worry about a tyre that is designed to perform poorly, a DRS system etc etc & we would see a different Kimi.

yeh also my feeling that he is the kind of guy that could jump into anything with wheels and be right up there, but fiddling with knobs and buttons in a car that doesn't think can win it seems he can't really be bothered

Ferrari wouldn't pay him over 20 mill a year if he wasnt bothered.

[krisfx]

Bring back the older formula, without all the artificial racing "enhancements" and I'm sure he would be more comfortable.

I think he still has the skill & speed, just not with these new cars, especially now when the drivers spend a good portion of the race being a strategist with Fuel & Tyre management and changing settings on the steering wheel (almost) every lap.

Other drivers have been able to adapt, Kimi has done a good job, but not as good as other, newer drivers to the sport.

Give him a car he can drive to the max, not worry about a tyre that is designed to perform poorly, a DRS system etc etc & we would see a different Kimi.

yeh also my feeling that he is the kind of guy that could jump into anything with wheels and be right up there, but fiddling with knobs and buttons in a car that doesn't think can win it seems he can't really be bothered

Ferrari wouldn't pay him over 20 mill a year if he wasnt bothered.

They did in 2009...

[bhall II]

Prior to that, he was arguably F1's quickest driver, and I don't think anyone found his racecraft wanting...

Based on what?

On the fact that one can argue almost anything if one is so inclined.

Really, it's just my opinion. That's all.

[Emmcee]

They did in 2009...

Yeah but he won a race that year, can't say he's wasnt interested and yet he still got the boot for alonso in 2010.

[evered7]

And here I was thinking Ferrari signed him again on the back of some impressive performances for the Lotus in 12/13 He maybe lost a bit of speed in qualifying and going against one of the best qualifiers in the series currently isn't going to be easy as well. But his race craft is still intact and I think he will shine in this European leg of the season. If Ferrari can sort out the issue with getting heat into the tires, I think it will help him in qualifying.

That said Arrivabene has been spouting a lot of nonsense in the media only saved by the performance of the car on track. He needlessly bought the spotlight on them with the 70% changes comment and was quick to jump on Kimi's back in Canada before realizing there was an issue with the car. Perhaps he needs a couple of Marlboros to cool him down.

[Emmcee]

And here I was thinking Ferrari signed him again on the back of some impressive performances for the Lotus in 12/13 He maybe lost a bit of speed in qualifying and going against one of the best qualifiers in the series currently isn't going to be easy as well. But his race craft is still intact and I think he will shine in this European leg of the season. If Ferrari can sort out the issue with getting heat into the tires, I think it will help him in qualifying.

That said Arrivabene has been spouting a lot of nonsense in the media only saved by the performance of the car on track. He needlessly bought the spotlight on them with the 70% changes comment and was quick to jump on Kimi's back in Canada before realizing there was an issue with the car. Perhaps he needs a couple of Marlboros to cool him down.

But this is the issue, people in the past have classed him as a top echelon driver, yet the drivers which are held in the same category have beat him and are beating him. I don't Beleive there is any issue with the car that affects kimis ability to drive it. There was mountain of excuses to try defend his awful season last year but at the start of the season they have consistantly said the car is better suited to kimi, yet basically the same thing is happening with seb as it was with alonso and to put the icing on the cake, kimi would have had heaps of input into this seasons chassis to make sure another season like last doesnt happen again, yet seb has come in and is basically dominating kimi. Canada proved how quick the Ferrari can be with seb starting what second last and only finishing 5 seconds behind kimi. If kimi could get on top of his qualifying issues he might get better results but the fact is, half the race result comes on Saturday. The other thing iam iffy about is kimis spin, how the heck does the same thing happen two years in a row on the same corner and it being the same issue? That's IMO is abit fishy, I think it was driver error and Ferrari are covering it up to give kimi abit of a break and relieve him of pressure he has been getting on who will replace him. The fact that any throttle issue would be linked to the engine mapping and would be able to be detected imediatly. That's my opinion anyway.