Plug in hybrid project

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
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tomislavp4
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006, 17:07
Location: Sweden & The Republic of Macedonia

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I´m working on the chassis at this moment, I´ll post pictures next week or so :wink:

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tomislavp4
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Talking about exploding batteries, check this http://www.tfot.info/content/view/111/61/

200 mW per 1 cm/2 is quite good don´t ya think :wink:

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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

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tomislavp4 wrote:What do you think is the minimal configuration to run FloWorks simulation on a whole car?

Few days ago I ran simple simulation to check the airflow around the batteries but it said not enough ram or something :?
I expected this but with more complex parts :oops:

Currently i have a laptop which is slow like hell (1,8Ghz, 512mb ram)
I´m thinking of buying AMD athlon 64 x2 6500+ (2,8Ghz, 2Gb cache and 2000Mhz buss) and 2Gb RAM. Do you think it can handle the job?

I ran some on my home machine 1gig of ram amd 3200xp



as far as batteries there is a company selling lipos with a built in protection system one of the texas teams used them

for an aluminum alloy i would use 6160 and have it heat treated or design for a t0 weld strength

but the future is in composites if you can lay your hands on some pre preg and some vacuum supplies you can build the chassis rather quickly

The Nutty Professor
The Nutty Professor
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Where are the pictures? Enquiring minds want to know what you've come up with. :shock: . I am waiting to be amazed.
"Without control, power is useless"
Kevin Schwantz 500 GP Champion

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tomislavp4
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Sorry for that :oops: I´ll post something very soon but you can´t expect live photos yet because I´m still on the drawingboard (can´t make my mind about few things) and I don´t have the budget to start anything :oops: so expect sketches tommorow or so :D

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tomislavp4
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Some photoshop pictures for those who wanted to see in which direction I´m going :wink:

[IMG:1610:830]http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1931/4lrz7.jpg[/img]

more to come about component placement and so...

I want to ask the aero-guys on F1T if they believe that the shape is good enough for sub 0,24cd drag coeficient :)

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tomislavp4
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11 guys have seen my previous post and none of them wrote something :evil:
I wonder, is it so hard to write few words like "it sucks", "it´s not gonna work", "looks childlish", "I like it" etc :?:
I need your feedback, positive or negative, it doesn´t metter :wink:

dumrick
dumrick
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Well, this was the first time I saw it. I love the three-wheel configuration and the water-drop shape. Both mechanically and aerodinamically they should increase overall efficiency of the vehicle. Beware, nonetheless, the effect that the 3 wheels have in vehicle dynamics, but I see you have a good track width that should help stabilize the vehicle. Will it be a FWD or RWD? I would assume RWD, for the fun of it, but maybe it's easier to pack the motors inside the front wheels...

One thing you have to look for is if you really need so much heat dissipation. Minimizing the air inlets is crucial to lower the Cx.

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checkered
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

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tomislavp4 wrote:11 guys have seen my previous post and none of them wrote something :evil:
I wonder, is it so hard to write few words like "it sucks", "it´s not gonna work", "looks childlish", "I like it" etc :?:
I need your feedback, positive or negative, it doesn´t metter :wink:
You're very impatient! I think it's

because in here, most people don't want to leave it at "I like it" or "it sucks". I like many aspects of the concept and some others I would question a bit. Unrelated/general advice to start with ... whenever you get to the actual building phase, you'll need a facility where you can leave your stuff as it may fall (and I don't mean untidy!). Starting and finishing every day with a major organizing effort is very unproductive. The same applies to design, actually. You'll need a "zone". At least that's my experience.

Dumrick beat me to some points, but I guess you can handle some repetition. Regarding the vehicle, I'll start off with what I see as the positives:

The drop shape, well worth exploring in a vehicle that has no great demands for internal space. Try and keep it clean and simple, IMHO, and it'll be all the better. The serious aero guys can elaborate further, I'm sure. I don't know what you're considering as the guiding principle for your chassis structure, but I'd explore using a triangular spaceframe that'd fit inside the "drop" like a hand in a glove - something that could also prove very rigid indeed.

Then, moving on to the grey area: I can't remember seeing an all wheel drive trike/three wheeler, ever. From your drawing it isn't even clear which wheels are supposed to be the steering ones. One, two, all? I recommend the Gordon Murray approach - from the very beginning, do not only do designs/drawings but also a very rough dynamic physics model with enough tolerance so that it can be continually refined within acceptable values as the design gets more and more accurate. (Amazing as the McLaren F1 looks, the outward appearance was designed late in the process. It tends to be that good physics produce beautiful shapes.)

The physics model I'd see especially important as it seems likely that in such a shape most of the mass has to be near the front. Not only that, most of the aero load would also be produced near the front (is that a ground effect shape towards the rear?). But then again as there’s only one wheel at the back, it might experience a comparable force to any ONE wheel ... I won’t consider this further now, but you’ll have to. And if there's an electric motor inside every wheel, clearly that'd add to unsprung weight. Widthwise you’re in supercar territory with 2 m, but it might well be that you need that ... dunno, I’ve only had a very superficial look at three wheelers.

And onwards to what I see as potential negatives: Is this supposed to be a road going vehicle? If so, you need to consider ground clearance. Whereas I can well imagine the drop shape being advantageous within your set of performance goals, your height (or “lowness” rather ...) seems pretty darn optimistic for an enclosed vehicle anyway. Your eye level would be around 70 cm at the most. Perhaps suitable for Formula 1, but considering that you’d have the front wheel well and other bodywork extending a full metre to the side from where your head is – and almost as high – your visibility could be dangerously blocked.

You certainly can’t hit the apexes like that – not without extrasensory perception. It’s no accident that the smallest roadsters tend to be soft top vehicles with (near) open wheel configurations at the front. Also the angle of your windscreen/glass roof seems to be quite shallow. Remember that with light passing through a denser substance than air, the larger the angle to the normal of the transparent surface, the less of the light is transmitted and more reflected. So you’ll have to make sure that when you sit down and look forward you’ll actually see something else than the reflection of your thighs ... !

Finally a disclaimer. In the end, you have to think for yourself. Even if I, and others, might have their ideas it’s not us that are going to go through with this. It’s you behind the wheel. Figuratively speaking and in the end in very real terms too.

Carlos
Carlos
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I have long been interested in the 3 wheel vehicle layout and I can see you share my interest. In the Forum you can find a link list of over 30 links to almost every design detail about 3 wheel vehicle dynamics and design. I had transfered them to F1T this Spring as an archive to a software, link thread. although I don't remember the title; it may provide a resource.

Carlos
Carlos
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Found the thread, can't believe I knew where it was and it only took a few minutes ... but it's only 24 links. :wink:

viewtopic.php?t=4080

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tomislavp4
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006, 17:07
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Now this is F1T that I like :D

[IMG:1158:409]http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3795/4laerobn4.jpg[/img]
Picture showing the aerodynamics better

I´ve found couple of articles on 3 wheeler dynamics and appart from the track it´s important to have more weight at front, depending on tyre size the ideal is 63-36 to 70-30. So the teardrop shape is the best shape for this, you´ll put the batteries at front and there you have it, perfect weight distribution :wink:

I´m thinking RWD or AWD, with AWD in a turn you can program the motors to drive every wheel on a diferent speed maximazing traction, but as checkered said it´s heavy, RWD on the other hand is light but you can´t really use all the car´s potential with one wheel drive :?

The steering wheels are the front.

I must say that I´ll rethink the visibility isues, thanks for pointing it out, I haven´t really tought a lot about it :)

Thanks for the links Carlos, I´m on my way there :D

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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
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This design might interest you. The Grinnall Scorpion.
Image
It is a rear wheel driven car so you should have no worries that one wheel drive is effective (this thing reaches 125mph) as well as encompassing stunning handling, low friction and maximum 'gawp factor'.

Regards suspension and steering its exactly what you need, just with a big electric motor inside and your super sleek bodywork on top.

What you've got so far is a fantastic concept, don't stray too far from that.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

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tomislavp4
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Who the hell drives this =D>
http://www.3wheelers.com/projgal15.html

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tomislavp4
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Guess what? I need help :D
After the stress analysis on my aluminium a-arm solidworks showed this:

[IMG:872:695]http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7240/aarmsldbb4.jpg[/img]

but I don´t know if it´s enough :oops: what are your thoughts?