Mclaren Honda 2015

[mrluke]

Alonso believes data from this weekend's running at Monza proves just how much McLaren is losing out on the straights.

"On a circuit that has six corners, on the GPS we lose six tenths in those six corners.
"The rest of the three seconds, we need to find on the straights."

Insiders say that the Honda at its best is at least 100bhp down on the Mercedes - and that the hybrid element of the power-unit, which accounts for 160-180bhp of the total power of the engine, runs out of boost part-way down all but the shortest of straights. That means the McLaren-Honda is lagging nearly 300bhp behind the Mercedes for a significant proportion of the straights on the Monza track, and is by some measure the worst engine in F1.


Honda F1 boss Yasuhisa Arai admitted that the deployment of the hybrid system was the biggest problem.

"We have already found what is the weak point of the power-unit and we have already started work on it," he said.
He said the biggest part of that work would happen for 2016 but that Honda hoped to add small improvements to the hybrid system during the remaining seven races of this season.

300bhp is a load of bull.

[Sayeman]

These interviews are getting a bit disrespectful to Honda, asking Arai to apologize to the Drivers, accusing Honda of destroying a part of the 2 drivers' careers etc...
This is their first year in F1, not like they have here all along like Renault.
At least give them another year before public shaming them like that.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120666

[zeph]

Insiders say that the Honda at its best is at least 100bhp down on the Mercedes - and that the hybrid element of the power-unit, which accounts for 160-180bhp of the total power of the engine, runs out of boost part-way down all but the shortest of straights. That means the McLaren-Honda is lagging nearly 300bhp behind the Mercedes for a significant proportion of the straights on the Monza track, and is by some measure the worst engine in F1.

I read that article, and it sounds like unadulterated crap to me. By all accounts, the ICE is in the ballpark, they just need to fix the MCU-H/K.

[diffuser]

Insiders say that the Honda at its best is at least 100bhp down on the Mercedes - and that the hybrid element of the power-unit, which accounts for 160-180bhp of the total power of the engine, runs out of boost part-way down all but the shortest of straights. That means the McLaren-Honda is lagging nearly 300bhp behind the Mercedes for a significant proportion of the straights on the Monza track, and is by some measure the worst engine in F1.

I read that article, and it sounds like unadulterated crap to me. By all accounts, the ICE is in the ballpark, they just need to fix the MCU-H/K.

You all get real emotional about stuff that for the most part is true.

EB said they could only use the ers-k for boost for less than half the lap at SPA. So, for the rest of that lap, they were down 180BHP + or - whatever the difference in Power of their ICE to Merc. "Nearly 300" isn' t out the realm of possibilities. 251 can be "Nearly 300bhp".

[Sayeman]

I think the interviews are getting a bit too disrespectful to Honda. Asking them to apologize to the drivers, accusing them of destroying a part of the 2 drivers' career etc... Honda(& Mclaren) is paying gazzillions to Alonso & Button to drive for them, why would they need to apologize?
This is their first year after a long break from F1, atleast wait till next year before public shaming them.

[maguetox]

I would have expected the car to be harder to drive with the reduced drag setup. But from the video it seems very stable. Looks almost an easy drive.

When you are driving at 6 or 7/10ths of the car potential obviously the car looks easy to drive. The lack of Honda power is too evident and the arrogant of Arai don't want to give and humble apology to the drivers and the team!!! Pathetic!

[j.yank]

Alonso believes data from this weekend's running at Monza proves just how much McLaren is losing out on the straights.

"On a circuit that has six corners, on the GPS we lose six tenths in those six corners.
"The rest of the three seconds, we need to find on the straights."

Insiders say that the Honda at its best is at least 100bhp down on the Mercedes - and that the hybrid element of the power-unit, which accounts for 160-180bhp of the total power of the engine, runs out of boost part-way down all but the shortest of straights. That means the McLaren-Honda is lagging nearly 300bhp behind the Mercedes for a significant proportion of the straights on the Monza track, and is by some measure the worst engine in F1.


Honda F1 boss Yasuhisa Arai admitted that the deployment of the hybrid system was the biggest problem.

"We have already found what is the weak point of the power-unit and we have already started work on it," he said.
He said the biggest part of that work would happen for 2016 but that Honda hoped to add small improvements to the hybrid system during the remaining seven races of this season.

My calculations based on the qualification speed trap in Monza show that probably Mercedes are running with around 910 hp pick power, Ferrari is around 850 hp, and McLaren around 830 hp. If we take this and that McLaren cannot deliver any energy through MGU-H in 52 sec. during the lap, OptimumLap simulation (very approximate because there is no Formula 1 2015 car profile and you have to adapt in some way the 2012 profile) also confirms the calculated speed trap powers of each of these engines. Note that on my opinion Hamilton didn't use all of his available power in the qualification. I know that these calculation are subject of many "if" and "then", but even the numbers are not entirely correct the relative balances match what we are seeing on the track.

[Jef Patat]

I would have expected the car to be harder to drive with the reduced drag setup. But from the video it seems very stable. Looks almost an easy drive.

When you are driving at 6 or 7/10ths of the car potential obviously the car looks easy to drive.

That is by no means 'obvious'. When you take away downforce to increase speed at the straights I would expect that car to be more nerveous in cornering.

[CjC]

As much as I don't like Arai and the bull he spews in his interviews is horrendous. I don't think he needs to apologise to anyone. Honda hasn't failed Mclaren, Alonso or Button. Formula one has failed them, the rules, especially the lack of testing rules have failed them.

Remember when Ferrari dominated in the early 2000s? They would chop and change the rules to allow the chasing pack to catch up, they finally did in '03. It seems now the rule book is getting stricter and stricter which is working more and more into Mercedes advantage. I'm not saying there is any bias-ness, just this new era of the sport is that if you don't get it right you can't spend coin to salvage a season. Remember Mclarens season in 2004?

Surely Mclaren and Honda trundling around the back of the field way off the pace for a full season is more of a waste of money than if they allowed them to spend money on development?

[jk-27]

I think the interviews are getting a bit too disrespectful to Honda. Asking them to apologize to the drivers, accusing them of destroying a part of the 2 drivers' career etc... Honda(& Mclaren) is paying gazzillions to Alonso & Button to drive for them, why would they need to apologize?
This is their first year after a long break from F1, atleast wait till next year before public shaming them.

It's their first year competing with these new engine rules yes, but they've known about the engine rules for some time prior to agreeing to re-join F1, so the decision to join F1 this year was based on the assumption that they could be competitive within the known engine rules. Mercedes began developing their 2013 engine in 2010, so they spent 3 years on R&D. Honda spent 1 year on R&D. That is either arrogance beyond belief or stupidity beyond acceptance.

[jk-27]

Formula one has failed them, the rules, especially the lack of testing rules have failed them.

This I agree with. How is F1 supposed to attract other car/engine manufacturers with rules that hinder their competitiveness? No global brand would or should risk their reputation by trying to enter F1 only to have rules that make them trundle around at the back because they aren't allowed to develop their engines at a rate to help them be competitive, as Honda are finding out this year.

[proteus]

Formula one has failed them, the rules, especially the lack of testing rules have failed them.

This I agree with. How is F1 supposed to attract other car/engine manufacturers with rules that hinder their competitiveness? No global brand would or should risk their reputation by trying to enter F1 only to have rules that make them trundle around at the back because they aren't allowed to develop their engines at a rate to help them be competitive, as Honda are finding out this year.

I agree with u both. And because of that, the Honda with its problems became an example for other potential incomers which were thinking to join the pack that its just not worth to spend so much money for the project, where u are practically deemed to fail. Look what happened to PURE. There was so much talk about it and it failed miserably before it even started.

For me, the right direction with this new turbo engines (with such restricted testing) would be a standard electric and energy harvesting part of the car, which would be the same in all cars, while the 1.6L turbo engine would be constructed by every manufacturer how he knows best and plugged on the system. This would cut costs quite a bit, and it would make engines itself more important again, and how u conect them to work in the sinergy with the hybrid part.

[CjC]

I totally agree with you both about attracting other manufacturers. Look at the potential Audi/Red Bull link you, that would have been awesome but Audi would have looked at Hondas struggle, looked at Mercedes spending 3 years and billions on R&D to he where they are AND the testing restrictions, I bet they laughed Helmut and Christian all the way out of Germany.

F1 is so unattractive to car manufacturers and we have to rely on new teams coming in like Haas- great a new team, that's good, good for manor too, some one to beat....

They need to allow the teams who want to spend- spend and the ones who don't want to- don't.
We have no testing now and have a 2 tier championship, why don't we have testing which results in a better 2 tier championship?

[proteus]

There were times when u had real engine manufacturers and private, or rebadged engines like Mugen Honda, Hart, Asiatech, Supertec, Ilmor and more....For me the championship is interesting if there are many teams with many different engines and tires competing with each other. Not one tyre supplier from which tires are failing and 4 engine manufaturers which are not aloved to test.....sorry for missing the topic...

[CjC]

Mclaren Honda using DRS down the main straight, sat in the Red Bull Renault DRS tow and another Red Bull Renault using DRS breezes past the Honda.
Supposedly Honda has 25bhp more than the Renault....

Have a day off Arai!

*edit*
Now we see the Mclaren Honda using DRS unable to pass a STR Renault without DRS.

Why would Honda want to employ a down right liar to be their spokesman, it makes them look bad.