Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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bhall II
bhall II
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Joined: 19 Jun 2014, 20:15

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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If one side is cooler than the other, that's going to happen regardless, right? Like I said, though, it was just an off the wall idea.

Incidentally, I think the best argument against it is that it would probably make more sense to increase cooling capacity by venting additional cooling flow through the wheel rather than directly onto it.

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Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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bhall II wrote:
Tommy Cookers wrote:but we are now supposed to think the larger drivers are at a disadvantage ?
I'm still unsure what you mean by that.
taking the above at face value, and at risk of being OT, it would be interesting .....

to know whether if eg Mr Bottas hits 175 kg multiple times on every lap, whether Mrs Wolff does the same
(Brembo's 175 kg being presumably derived from the actual moment applied (the brake pedal being really a lever) a person smaller footed than a Mr B would need to develop more force than a Mr B because of their effectively or actually smaller pedal)

and to know whether the brake pedal forces are eg lower in less aero-dependent classes that might feed F1 aspirations

Cold Fussion
Cold Fussion
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Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 04:51

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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I would be very surprised if almost anyone could not apply 175kg to the brake pedal, especially a professional racing driver doing it their entire life.

tpe
tpe
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Joined: 03 Feb 2006, 00:24
Location: Greece

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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So, the switched to the old package, right? It will be really interesting to see if they will use the "new" package in the following (slow) races.

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Drica
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Joined: 04 May 2015, 22:34

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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tpe wrote:So, the switched to the old package, right? It will be really interesting to see if they will use the "new" package in the following (slow) races.
It seems that the old package is less draggier and they use it on high speed tracks

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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bhall II wrote:Do you think my speculation is centered around the notion that I think current drivers are somehow unable to apply enough pedal force? It's not.

Since carbon-carbon brakes work best at high temperatures, my idea is that the vents on the right-front brake cover deliberately slow down the rate in which the disc/pads within reach optimal temperature under braking. If so, it would briefly reduce the brake's friction coefficient by a small percentage relative to the left brake, and that would make it less likely to lock up as load shifts away from it through right-hand corners.

I have no clue if this is actually feasible, because I know jack --- about tribology. But, if it is, it would allow drivers to apply more pedal force deeper into corners with lower risk of understeer. At a track like Monza, those characteristics would seem to be very advantageous.

In other words, I think it's "one-wheel thermal ABS." (But, it's probably not.)
Tantalizing idea but you would have to check how the the friction coefficient changes across tempratures. It might be curve.. it might be flat.. it might have drop offs at either end..

Still a very intriguing idea.
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atlantis
atlantis
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Joined: 24 Jan 2014, 14:33

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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One question: as per regulations, must the pressure applied to the brake pedal be distributed equally to the brakes on the same axle, in the same quantity?
Is it possible to have different brakes between, for example, the front brakes so that one brake brakes more or less than the other?
If it is possible, and if the friction coefficient (of the carbon brakes) is a well-know value, the it could be possible to adjust brake pressure differently, let one disk slide more, and the other less, to simulate some sort of "front axle differential"?.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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atlantis wrote:One question: as per regulations, must the pressure applied to the brake pedal be distributed equally to the brakes on the same axle, in the same quantity?
Is it possible to have different brakes between, for example, the front brakes so that one brake brakes more or less than the other?
If it is possible, and if the friction coefficient (of the carbon brakes) is a well-know value, the it could be possible to adjust brake pressure differently, let one disk slide more, and the other less, to simulate some sort of "front axle differential"?.
That is illegal.
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JDC123
JDC123
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Joined: 20 Jun 2013, 21:02

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
atlantis wrote:One question: as per regulations, must the pressure applied to the brake pedal be distributed equally to the brakes on the same axle, in the same quantity?
Is it possible to have different brakes between, for example, the front brakes so that one brake brakes more or less than the other?
If it is possible, and if the friction coefficient (of the carbon brakes) is a well-know value, the it could be possible to adjust brake pressure differently, let one disk slide more, and the other less, to simulate some sort of "front axle differential"?.
That is illegal.
Brake bias can only be altered front/rear not left/right.

jonaliew
jonaliew
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Joined: 09 Sep 2012, 09:45

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/32420/ ... cy-in-2015
What the fuel and new combustion chamber shape combined allow is not just a bigger explosion in the combustion chamber – but a flame of greater duration, enabling the parts to be exposed to it for longer and thereby making the ignition less critical. This makes the engine more resistant to detonation – which is the chief limitation to power with this type of engine. Detonation is the phenomenon whereby the ignition becomes uncontrolled and uncoordinated with the delivery of the fuel mixture into the combustion chamber.

If it spontaneously ignites at the wrong time it can prove disastrous for the engine. The more prone the engine is to this uncontrolled ignition, the more conservatively its settings have to be to avoid it – and the less power it makes. Delay the onset of detonation with a new fuel composition and/or a better combustion chamber design and the engine can be run more aggressively, giving more power for the same fuel consumption or better fuel consumption for the same power.

This resistance to detonation is believed to be the biggest single advantage enjoyed by Mercedes over the rival Ferrari and, particularly, Renault, which is believed to be poor in this regard. This advantage compounds in the hybrid era, for the more power that is produced, the more heat that is created for the ersH to recover, giving greater electrical power too.
Does anyone have an idea what is Ferrari combustions chamber like and where is it positioned? Is this theory true?

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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jonaliew wrote:http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/32420/ ... cy-in-2015
..... The more prone the engine is to this uncontrolled ignition, the more conservatively its settings have to be to avoid it – and the less power it makes. Delay the onset of detonation with a new fuel composition and/or a better combustion chamber design and the engine can be run more aggressively, giving more power for the same fuel consumption or better fuel consumption for the same power.
This resistance to detonation is believed to be the biggest single advantage enjoyed by Mercedes ....
This advantage compounds in the hybrid era, for the more power that is produced, the more heat that is created for the ersH to recover, giving greater electrical power too.
the sweeping last sentence is in a sweeping way - totally wrong
the more power that is produced (at the crankshaft) the less is the exhaust's internal energy aka heat for the ersH to recover
not even Mercedes can extract one lot of energy twice

Moose
Moose
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Joined: 03 Oct 2014, 19:41

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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jonaliew wrote:Does anyone have an idea what is Ferrari combustions chamber like and where is it positioned? Is this theory true?
The combustion chamber is the area in each cylinder bore above the cylinder - in which the combustion occurs and pushes the cylinder down. Certainly, the way you get more power on these turbos is by making the fire burn in there in a more efficient way, and using more of the fuel (since you can't inject more fuel). The theory is almost certainly correct - most of it is simply an explanation of what the (well known) phenomenon of knocking means.

drunkf1fan
drunkf1fan
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Joined: 20 Apr 2015, 03:34

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
jonaliew wrote:http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/32420/ ... cy-in-2015
..... The more prone the engine is to this uncontrolled ignition, the more conservatively its settings have to be to avoid it – and the less power it makes. Delay the onset of detonation with a new fuel composition and/or a better combustion chamber design and the engine can be run more aggressively, giving more power for the same fuel consumption or better fuel consumption for the same power.
This resistance to detonation is believed to be the biggest single advantage enjoyed by Mercedes ....
This advantage compounds in the hybrid era, for the more power that is produced, the more heat that is created for the ersH to recover, giving greater electrical power too.
the sweeping last sentence is in a sweeping way - totally wrong
the more power that is produced (at the crankshaft) the less is the exhaust's internal energy aka heat for the ersH to recover
not even Mercedes can extract one lot of energy twice
The thing that is responsible for more power on the crankshaft is more complete burning of the fuel, this still heats the exhaust up more as it's really all part of the same chain. Likewise the other part you ignored is, more power into the crankshaft turns into higher speed in the car which turns into higher energy recovery from the mgu-k.

More complete fuel burning absolutely leads to more energy recovery. If the ers systems can recover 15% of the power generated inside the combustion chamber via mgu-k or mgu-h, then if you increase the power generated you increase the energy recovered.

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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nothing in the article is about or related to completeness or otherwise of combustion
there is a general view that the combustion is already complete because they have all arranged ample surplus air to do this
proven by the boost pressures that have been reported

the sentence I commented on says 'more heat for the ersH'
there is no more heat for the ersH, there is less (if there is more crankshaft power)
(interestingly,'free piston' engines have been made, delivering no mechanical/crankshaft power but energetic gas to turbines)

yes if more crankshaft power gives more speed, braking time will be a bit longer and so the ersK will recover a bit more
but the article said ersH not ersK

bill shoe
bill shoe
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Joined: 19 Nov 2008, 08:18
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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The real-time power delivery chain of turbine-MGUH-MGUK is constrained by rule to 160 hp, but the real-time power to the crankshaft via the combustion engine is not constrained by any rule. Mercedes has, by most accounts, hit the 160 hp MGU-K limit for a large proportion of the lap so they have to look toward putting any additional energy/power into the transmission via the combustion engine. Reading between the lines this is a bit un-green or inefficient, but that's the incentive the rules create.