Honda motorsport boss Yasuhisa Arai has claimed that it is unfair the engine maker is receiving all criticism and has rebuked doubts that the Japanese firm could make enough of a step forward over the next winter to become competitive.
They were distinctly inferior to Williams last season, maybe that changed, but i can't put a definitive word on that.PlatinumZealot wrote:
I agree with this. I think it is better than the Williams. definitely.
Moreover, McLaren stated some weeks ago they were still developing the new concept in Woking, so this season car is not yet what they have in minddiffuser wrote:Well I think McLaren Aimed a little high for this year....You'd have to ask PP what he's aiming for. I presume a better Chassis and steady improvement. There are new rules in 2017?
It's hard to compare a known quantity like Newey to a fairly NEW person like PP. I think McLaren spared little expense in trying to get PP and RedBull fought hard to retain him. So that to me says he's very good. How good ? I don't have access to any of the people that have insight into that. Nor do I have any insight into who the people are that are better than PP or than can help him. Nor do I know why McLaren targeted PP.
Yeah, I have no idea about the last point. I do know that PP brought in some of his own people. Not sure how many.
I'm done talking about this BTW. I will no longer respond on this subject. My point was and I'm sorry if it got lost in all this ....Lets say that PP isn't as good as Newey, not hard as few people are. If it took Newey 3 years + for his first win, if you look at those first 2 seasons there were a ton of DNFs, should we not wait till PP has gone through a full cycle before throwing stones? I think we need to wait till next year at this time to reassess.
If the only way they'll get to the 'top' is by engines reaching parity due to diminishing returns... their competitiveness again, will be one limited to aero/chassis development - and then it's going to be all 2010-2013 again, with the difference that in light of their [McLarens] competitiveness, they not only will have lost good drivers, but also sponsors and engineers too. How much did they lose to Mercedes? How many sponsors have left without them finding a replacement?alexx_88 wrote:I think the only one under pressure in all this is Alonso. Both Mclaren and Honda seem to have the desire and financial resources to work until they get to the top. It might take them longer, but they'll succeed as PU development hits the realm of diminishing returns and they'll probably be fine on the chassis-side in this formula where aero development is quite limited.
Andres125sx wrote: Moreover, McLaren stated some weeks ago they were still developing the new concept in Woking, so this season car is not yet what they have in mind
Basically a new car still under development, a new PU still under development, and a new team (McLaren + PP + Honda) still under development.
But some people think in september of first season it´s enough to know they´ve failed with the new project...
While I agree that McLaren seems to have been on downhill slope since 2013, it doesn't say much.drunkf1fan wrote: It's worth noting that Mercedes took over a very much reduced Brawn team which had lost most of it's staff and hadn't been developing throughout the year. Mercedes took 3 years to become competitive because they were building up new facilities, hiring staff and basically rebuilding the team from scratch. Red bull were much the same, taking over a Jaguar team with a small budget. It took them years to build it up into a big budget and truly competitive team.
Mclaren doesn't have this excuse, they were a huge team before Honda got involved, they are still a huge team and a huge team failing.
................................
They are the biggest team failing the worst over three seasons now.
And they´re paying the bill now, but that does not mean the whole project has failed, only that this season has been a disaster because of this.drunkf1fan wrote:They appear to have actively pushed for Honda to get in a year earlier than they should
Haha.. funniest thing I have seen all year!
Phil wrote:If the only way they'll get to the 'top' is by engines reaching parity due to diminishing returns... their competitiveness again, will be one limited to aero/chassis development - and then it's going to be all 2010-2013 again, with the difference that in light of their [McLarens] competitiveness, they not only will have lost good drivers, but also sponsors and engineers too. How much did they lose to Mercedes? How many sponsors have left without them finding a replacement?alexx_88 wrote:I think the only one under pressure in all this is Alonso. Both Mclaren and Honda seem to have the desire and financial resources to work until they get to the top. It might take them longer, but they'll succeed as PU development hits the realm of diminishing returns and they'll probably be fine on the chassis-side in this formula where aero development is quite limited.
The other factor is; if diminishing returns will ever be reached, considering that the rules even for engines might be re-evaluated to keep it interesting for engine manufacturers to keep investing into the sport and development. If the rules for engine stagnate, we will sooner or later end up with identical engines. And with it, the incentive for new engine manufacturers to enter will become smaller, because the "optimum" will already be found, so no one can enter and be better. So the rules will evolve, perhaps by encouraging efficiency even more and that in turn will mean that 'engine parity' is a moving target...
That's nor a fair comparison. I think from the teams Ferrari is in the best position to take a couple bad years. They don't have to respond to the whims of a parent company. For instance Mercedes can decide to step out F1 in a heartbeat. Ferrari's status aparte within Fiat means that they can continue to do F1 as long as they see a commercial benefit. The results of Ferrari cars are such that they can finance F1 from their car activities so although they are welcome, they are not dependent on sponsors.zeph wrote: While I agree that McLaren seems to have been on downhill slope since 2013, it doesn't say much.
Ferrari was (and still is) the biggest team, and didn't win a championship for 21 years, while McLaren and Williams were scooping them up left right and center. These things happen.
Ferrari hasn't exactly been a model of success in the post-Schuey years either. They were gifted the 2007 WDC/WCC thanks to McLaren's intra-team battles, but that's it.
don't underestimate Rule 31, indeed.ChrisF1 wrote:It's probably already out therebauc wrote:Sooner or Latter we will see some weird Japanese porn with this PU's in the main roles, I bet on it!
Yes but the "gap" keeps getting smaller and smaller,i think this might be the smallest gap yet on a normal track,Monaco and Singapoure aside.bauc wrote:Alonso for SkySport relfelcting on today qualy and the future:
"I told the guys this is probably the best lap I can get around here for my career. I could put 100 sets of tyres on in the afternoon and repeat the lap but probably I cannot get to that lap time," he said.
"It's frustrating, no doubt, but this is the situation and everyone is doing their best.
The 34-year-old, who clinched his first world title almost exactly 10 years ago, added: "There are no magic solutions from one race to another and we also have to quantify what is the possibility from one year to another.
"We are 2.1 seconds behind, so that's a very big gap and trying to do it in one winter will be the next one. But if not then probably we need to wait one more year."
With such lap time difference, this late in the season, I guess no one does anymore ... best we can hope for is regular q2/q3 and pointsCjC wrote:So from that last line, reading into what he saying, he's doesn't expect to be fighting for wins next season either. Shame.
