Mclaren Honda 2015

[bauc]

I fully understand Alonso's comments, and we must understand that they were given in the heat of the moment. To quote Wizari above '' you have to hate to lose more than you want to win '' - this is absolutely true, the same feeling guided me trough my basketball carrier and I can truly relate to Alonso's frustration at the moment. Overall I think the peaces are starting to fall in place. A new sponsor is coming, Honda working 24/7 on next year's improvements, PP & Team @Woking are working on the new chassis, JB is staying next year as well so over all I'm sure a better future is ahead of Mclaren Honda.

[zeph]

Overall I think the peaces are starting to fall in place. A new sponsor is coming, Honda working 24/7 on next year's improvements, PP & Team @Woking are working on the new chassis, JB is staying next year as well so over all I'm sure a better future is ahead of Mclaren Honda.

Well, and I say this without any sarcasm, it couldn't possibly be worse than this season, so yeah, sure the future will be better.

[max_speed]

I Overall I think the peaces are starting to fall in place. A new sponsor is coming, Honda working 24/7 on next year's improvements, PP & Team @Woking are working on the new chassis, JB is staying next year as well so over all I'm sure a better future is ahead of Mclaren Honda.

i won't get excited before winter tests will get over. future depends on actions being taken in present and so far i am not that convinced.

[bauc]

Overall I think the peaces are starting to fall in place. A new sponsor is coming, Honda working 24/7 on next year's improvements, PP & Team @Woking are working on the new chassis, JB is staying next year as well so over all I'm sure a better future is ahead of Mclaren Honda.

Well, and I say this without any sarcasm, it couldn't possibly be worse than this season, so yeah, sure the future will be better.

Well it can be, Manor is getting Merc PU's next year

[bauc]

I Overall I think the peaces are starting to fall in place. A new sponsor is coming, Honda working 24/7 on next year's improvements, PP & Team @Woking are working on the new chassis, JB is staying next year as well so over all I'm sure a better future is ahead of Mclaren Honda.

i won't get excited before winter tests will get over. future depends on actions being taken in present and so far i am not that convinced.

Excited? No, Hopeful? Yes, always.

[Phil]

I think that what he said during the race, with 180BPMs in his heart, was embarrassing, specially in Japan.
But on Alonso's defense, once with a cool head, and while reaffirming what he had said in the race, he also said:

“I think this is the only thing that will challenge Mercedes in the near future,” he said. “Right now is tough times because we don’t have the toys to fight with them but I think everyone is working very hard. This is a very positive thing, everyone is making sure that we know the problems, we go deep into the solutions that we will find for next year and we are working on that process.”

I'm not sure that this defense is worth mentioning; Had he not made those embarrassing comments, there wouldn't have been any reason to soften the blow post-race. Alonso is experienced; he's not only one of F1 highest regarded drivers, he is also a two time world-champion and he's one of the oldest on the grid. To think he was not absolutely aware that the world was going to listen to what he said on the team-radio is ridiculous.

The problem is, Fernando, this is a team-sport. You don't get to win championships simply because you are the best driver. It's not an obligation [to you].

The traits he is showing is very different, to, i.e. Vettel, who in 2014 remained fair, even when he was being beaten by Ricciardo and the car let him down on numerous occasions. He is showing those same qualities at Ferrari, where he is not only part of the team, but also from what it seems a central motivator in rallying the team together in what results in not only a pleasant working environment, but one that is infinitely more motivating for every single team member too. And I'm not at all a Vettel fan, supporter or sympathizer. But it's difficult to ignore these qualities.

Sure, Alonso has gone through 5 seasons of arguably less successful years at Ferrari where perhaps a lot of anger and frustration has built up over the years. And he's also had a much deeper low than Vettel - or most drivers - have had in his current year at McLaren-Honda. But he should take note on how Button is dealing with the situation across the garage. We don't see frustrating messages to that extend there and in any interview, painful or not, we see Button treading the line between criticism, concern but optimism beautifully. The way Alonso is showing himself in such team-radio messages just goes further in establishing the points raised during the end of his Ferrari days that he sees himself as bigger than the team and that is perhaps one of the reasons why that relationship in 2014 broke down completely as Ferrari found themselves in desperate need of change and restructuring.

Comments like the ones highlighted on team-radio in Suzuka, are neither constructive nor will it bring him any closer to achieving the goal of winning. In fact, it will only ensure that the team will either throw him out or it will further dismantle a relationship that desperately needs to get on the right track. You don't achieve this by public humiliation, not by making you seem as bigger than the team and deserving of a better drive, or by being rubbing McLaren up against Honda. You do it, by standing behind your team, in good times as well as bad and to work and play your part in a constructive manner. Because it's not a one-man-team, and every single individual, from all the McLaren engineers right up to Honda are required to do their part.

Alonso's talent behind the wheel is undisputed, but it won't be enough to secure him any level of success with the way he is conducting himself. In fact, it should be a bit head scratching that a driver who has been voted as best-driver by majority of team-principals in a at least 2010 and 2012 and still seen as perhaps the most complete driver on the grid to not have found a better drive than McLaren-Honda in 2015 to be a bit of a wake-up call. RedBull didn't want him, Mercedes was happy with both drivers they signed and Ferrari probably was less pleased to keep him on than what we might like to think. IMO, he seriously needs to start becoming a team-player, putting his ego behind the team and start to play a role bigger than simply driving a car flat out. The work starts outside as well, and especially in times when it's important to stand with and behind the team, and not with the finger pointing at them as if he deserved better.

The scary thing is; If this frustration that he is showing is not only coming from his own ego, but also partly from the McLaren team vs what Honda is achieving, I see a long way in them ever regaining competitiveness. But Alonso, especially being the driver he is, is absolutely required and has the ability to correct that, to bond the team and motivate them, especially in times as hard as these.

At the rate this frustration within this relationship is continuing and what part he is playing outside of driving the car, I don't see him completing his 3 year contract, and if he does, with results no better than the midfield. Ron is absolutely correct in what he said in his interview; You need to stay constructive, especially towards your partner and engine supplier, who ironically is paying for a majority of all expenses and most probably drivers salaries (McLaren has no title sponsor). Frustration is legitimate, but from a driver as experiences as Alonso, such damaging radio-comments are not what I expect - justified or not. And if I had any guess; he wasn't entirely hired to simply drive the car, but to be a leading motivating figure. To drive the team forward. Things that we are clearly not seeing at the moment.

[alexx_88]

I tend to agree with you, Phil, on the allegedly 'heat of the moment' nature of the comments. I'm willing to bet that the whole thing was a strategy to embarrass Honda in front of their president, fans and country so that they'll be forced to put more resources into the project and speed things up. I am pretty sure no engineer from Honda is going to feel less motivated because of Alonso's comments, quite the contrary. Don't forget that any F1 team is a highly politicized machine, especially one formed of two huge entities like Honda and Mclaren, it's not like the former put all their money and resources into the project, so a PR disaster like this could trigger good things as well.

Time is running out for Alonso, as I said a few days ago, and he is hugely competitive, so he's trying to do anything he can to make his situation better. In the end, people are complaining that drivers are PR machines and then complaining when they speak their mind? At least it shows that he really wants to win, no matter who he might upset in the process. Also, he's constantly praising the efforts of the people working in Mclaren-Honda, it's not like he doesn't appreciate the effort, but Mercedes put in much more money and resources than Honda and he probably saw this as the only way at his disposal to force a huge corporation like Honda into a change. Vettel is like that, Hamilton is like that, Schuey was like that when he was racing. Ferrari wanted Alonso for 2015, they've said that a number of times, I really don't buy the "He is difficult to work with" myth. As for team options in 2015, that's true for any driver out there. If Hamilton would be free of contract starting tomorrow, which team would take him on?

[Andres125sx]

The problem is, Fernando, this is a team-sport. You don't get to win championships simply because you are the best driver.

Are you really saying this to Fernando Alonso? After driving a Minardi? After 2010 or 2012? After 2008 and 2009?

He knows better than any other what F1 is about

The traits he is showing is very different, to, i.e. Vettel, who in 2014 remained fair, even when he was being beaten by Ricciardo and the car let him down on numerous occasions. He is showing those same qualities at Ferrari, where he is not only part of the team, but also from what it seems a central motivator in rallying the team together in what results in not only a pleasant working environment, but one that is infinitely more motivating for every single team member too.

Reading your comments it looks like Alonso ranted about Ferrari from the beginning, when he only complained in last season when his patience was finished, but first 3-4 seasons he was as constructive, motivating and positive as a driver can be. He spent more time than any other in Maranello, any comment to the media was positive and constructive, there was no complains at all even if perfomance was poor, all mechanics and engineers frequently commented how motivating he was...

But you can´t compare Alonso´s behaviour after 5 frustrating seasons at Ferrari with Vettel´s behaviour in his very first season after achieving 3 victories, and only two seasons after his last title. Alonso was equally positive in his first season in red when he won 5 races.

If Vettel can´t fight for any championship in next 4 seasons then we will see if he really is more motivating and constructive than Alonso. As you said frustration is something wich build up during the years, it´s not the same 1 difficult season after winning 4 titles in a row, than another difficult season after 4 consecutive difficult seasons with the team. Apples to oranges.

BTW, Vettel moved out of RBR after only 1 difficult season

But he should take note on how Button is dealing with the situation across the garage. We don't see frustrating messages to that extend there and in any interview, painful or not, we see Button treading the line between criticism, concern but optimism beautifully

Jenson Button says his McLaren car was 'scary' to drive and reveals further fears for the British team

That was not very beatiful to say about the car if you ask me, and it was said a lot earliear in the season

The way Alonso is showing himself in such team-radio messages just goes further in establishing the points raised during the end of his Ferrari days that he sees himself as bigger than the team and that is perhaps one of the reasons why that relationship in 2014 broke down completely as Ferrari found themselves in desperate need of change and restructuring.

Sure, Ferrari finishing 4th in the WCC has no influence here, and it was Ferrari who fired Alonso

Sorry Phil, but you know this is far from true. Alonso moved out of Ferrari, not the other way around. I see that argument repeated too often, but that does not mean it´s true. Alonso got tired of Ferrari promising improvements every single season, to fail again season by season. He decided to move out because the project was not promising for him to fight for championships.

I know Ferrari is not used to drivers moving out of Ferrari intentionally, but it happened

it should be a bit head scratching that a driver who has been voted as best-driver by majority of team-principals in a at least 2010 and 2012 and still seen as perhaps the most complete driver on the grid to not have found a better drive than McLaren-Honda in 2015 to be a bit of a wake-up call. RedBull didn't want him, Mercedes was happy with both drivers they signed and Ferrari probably was less pleased to keep him on than what we might like to think.

Red Bull only promote drivers from his young drivers program, never hired any driver from any other team, Mercedes already have one of the best three drivers on the grid and best car by far, they don´t need him to win both championships easily, and he´s not a Ferrari driver in 2015 because he didn´t want to be Ferrari driver anymore

At the rate this frustration within this relationship is continuing and what part he is playing outside of driving the car, I don't see him completing his 3 year contract

What rate is that? It was first comment in that line, there´s no rate at all.

Seriously Phil, I agree with you probably on 90% of your posts, but here I can´t agree with anything you said. Looks like Alonso is an egomaniac who never support any of his teams, and that´s so far from reality I´m very suprised reading this from you. Last season in Ferrari was complicated, that´s true, but who can criticize Alonso for that after 5 seasons saving Ferrari´s public image while his car was losing perfomance season by season? I can´t. But that was only after 5 seasons with broken promises from Ferrari side.

This season he´s done first comment criticizing the PU, what is surprising considering he DNF more races than he finished (7/13) and those he finished perfomance was that embarrasing. He´s been too patient. In his first 7 races with McHonda he DNF in 5 of them. I can´t imagine Hamilton or any other driver without one harsh word for the team after that, can you?

[GoranF1]

Interview Arai(google translator robot T101 )
Yasuhisa Arai (Japan, 58 years), yet the aggressiveness with which some sector of Formula 1 Honda strike him and is not explained, the company is responsible. The engineer is aware of the poor performance that has offered so far the engine of the car of Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button, but in this talk with the country also recognizes that not all McLaren woes are attributable to the power unit of the brand golden wing.

Question. Have you noticed the extra pressure racing in Suzuka?

Answer. This is a very special race for Honda. And besides, this is the toughest circuit in the world, both for the car and for the driver, so yes some pressure that I felt. Even before coming here we knew we were going to have problems with power management engine.

Q. At what point is the relationship between McLaren and Honda?

R. The communication is very good, better every day. So I do not quite understand the harassment and demolition I have suffered lately, especially in Monza, where I was subjected to third degree. Honda is aware of the difference between us and the top teams, we know what we are about and work to stop. I am sorry that we all take the blame us, it's sad.

Q. Do you feel sufficiently supported by McLaren?

R. From the technical point of view, yes. But, and I return to Monza, the acrimony of the press should not have reached that level. Of course we are disappointed, but that negativity does not help.

Q. That means they expect a different attitude from McLaren.

A. Honestly, yes. It is the responsibility of the team not to create situations like this. As a team we do everything possible to be united and not create division. Honda has always been honest, we explained where we are and what we need to improve. But that has not been done as a team and would have been better to tell all. Unfortunately, only our party has gone. If we add that the results do not come, it seems that Honda is lying and is not.

Q. Everything was precipitated when in August said his goal was that the propeller was at the height of Ferrari. Why make such high expectations?

R. I am an engineer, and from that point of view I have access to the data. What happens is that, as a team, then we do not get the expected results. I am honest with the data that I offer, I can prove everything I say, but also understand that if the overall performance does not fit, there are people who think that not telling the truth. When I talked to catch up with Ferrari was referring only to the power of the combustion engine.

Honda has always been honest, but unfortunately, our party has only come to light "
Q. ¿Honda would rather return to F1 next year?

R. From a technical point of view, yes, because these power units are very complex. We knew it would be very difficult but at the same time, being here in 2015 has allowed us to learn a lot. But again, all is not the responsibility of the engine, also part of the chassis it is suffering a lot.

Q. Where is the main problem of the propeller?

R. In the ERS [the electrical part of the power unit]. In circuits with long straights, the extra power LRA collapses, and that means we lose about 160 horses. That loss is far greater than what we can gain from the combustion engine.

From a technical point of view we would have preferred to return next season, but we learn a lot by being here "
Q. What margin needed to solve these problems with the LRA?

R. solve our this year will be difficult because they require a redesign of the engine. We already work with a view to next season.

Q. How would you convince fans of McLaren that the situation will be different in 2016?

R. I think we can do in the preseason.

Q. Does the regulation offers sufficient margin to turn around this situation?

R. Yes, there will be no problem with that.

It will be difficult to troubleshoot the ERS before next year because we need to redesign the engine "
P. This project was announced from the successes of McLaren and Honda in the late eighties. Do not you think those expectations have played against?

A. I think that has not affected us. We understand that a lot is expected of this link and the objectives are very ambitious.

Q. In the last race of 2014, Ron Denis told this newspaper that in 2015 McLaren would win races.

R. When Ron said it did not know at what point the engine was not sure what to expect from him because he had assembled.

Alonso: "This is a GP2 engine!"

Mr. Arai will not have him do too much grace to hear the cries of Fernando Alonso, who in the heat of battle and while trying to keep behind the Toro Rosso of Max Verstappen, exploded on the radio: "This is an engine of GP2! ". When leaving the car, the Spaniard, a little calmer, tried to explain the feelings that led him to express once again their frustration. "It's just embarrassing. In the curves we go fast, but for others it is very easy to anticipate. They spin, crossed out and make mistakes, but on the straight and are back to our side, wheel to wheel, "the Spaniard reeled finally eleventh. " It's not like I want my riders demonstrate their professionalism. He goes in the car and is frustrated, but that tone is not a constructive way to communicate, "he replied after Ron Dennis, team skipper Woking (UK).
Lewis dominated the race from the first corner Hamilton. There, soon after starting, the champion Nico Rosberg was cornered and forced him to go off the track and raise the foot. From that moment, the British paced Suzuka until won the eighth victory of the season, the 41st of his career, a figure that puts him level with Ayrton Senna, his idol forever. After he finished Rosberg, which marked the eighth double of the course for Mercedes. Sebastian Vettel closed the podium, while Carlos Sainz made a mistake on his second visit to the shop, ate a bollard and broke the nose of his car, and finally crossed the line tenth, just behind Verstappen.

[bauc]

@GoranF1, thanks for posting this interview, much appreciated.
I just want to underline few parts from the interview which for me were quite interesting:

Q. Where is the main problem of the propeller?

R. In the ERS [the electrical part of the power unit]. In circuits with long straights, the extra power LRA collapses, and that means we lose about 160 horses. That loss is far greater than what we can gain from the combustion engine.

From a technical point of view we would have preferred to return next season, but we learn a lot by being here "
Q. What margin needed to solve these problems with the LRA?
R. solve our this year will be difficult because they require a redesign of the engine. We already work with a view to next season.

Q. How would you convince fans of McLaren that the situation will be different in 2016?
R. I think we can do in the preseason.

Q. Does the regulation offers sufficient margin to turn around this situation?
R. Yes, there will be no problem with that.

[Thunder]

The traits he is showing is very different, to, i.e. Vettel, who in 2014 remained fair, even when he was being beaten by Ricciardo and the car let him down on numerous occasions.

Calling his Car a Cucumber is hardly any better that what Alonso did yesterday.

This Topic gets blown way out of proportion. If anything this was the last Reason for Hachigo San to throw everything needed at this Project to make sure 2016 doesn't end up like this Year.

[Phil]

I am well aware that my post might seem rather harsh, but let me clarify a few points I think are being overlooked:

- I'm not saying Alonso should not be frustrated
- I'm focusing on the GP2 remarks made on the team-radio with a very clear intention, given how and where they were made
- I'm saying that those intentions are neither constructive nor beneficial, but in reality rather damaging to the overall partnership in the way they were made

The main point being, these comments were made at the home race of Honda, in a time when they are already under pressure, in the negative spot light of severely underperforming. There are two important questions to be asked; Are they underperforming due to incompetence, or because of restrictive rules? I'd say the latter (though a bit of both is probably more accurate), although incompetence, no matter how harsh that sounds is tied to it. Perhaps underestimated is the better word here.

No one is suggesting that Alonso should be praising something that shouldn't be. My point was rather that what he is doing - and sorry; venting frustration in the 'heat of the moment' doesn't cut it for a driver of his age and ability - is rather damaging and is not what Honda, McLaren nor any individual that is working hard to better the situation so that yes, Alonso can go and win WDCs, is expecting.

Honda are in the sport, like all other manufacturers for PR purposes. And they are also paying his salary. If Honda weren't investing that much into the prospects of winning with McLaren, I think McLaren would be in a rather uncomfortable position given their lack of sponsorship. Alonso's salary? It wouldn't happen, I'm fairly sure. Not that it needs a driver of his caliber anyway at the moment - with the performance that car momentarily has, Button, even Kevin couldn't perform better.

Sorry Phil, but you know this is far from true. Alonso moved out of Ferrari, not the other way around. I see that argument repeated too often, but that does not mean it´s true. Alonso got tired of Ferrari promising improvements every single season, to fail again season by season. He decided to move out because the project was not promising for him to fight for championships.

I wasn't arguing about who left who; I was talking about Alonso's attitude , raising the question if perhaps that too was one of the reason that relationship broke down with Ferrari.

Lets think back:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/07/m ... from-here/

In an extraordinary statement issued on the Ferrari website last night, Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo publicly attacked his lead driver Fernando Alonso for disloyalty at a time when the team needed to “close ranks” following a disappointing showing in Hungary.

“The Ferrari I saw in yesterday’s race doesn’t sit well with me,” said Montezemolo – and he wasn’t just talking about the performance on the track, but about the way his team was functioning.

“That was a reference to the latest comments from Fernando Alonso, which did not go down well with Montezemolo, nor with anyone in the team. So, when Montezemolo called the Spaniard this morning to wish him a happy birthday, he also tweaked his ear, reminding him that, “all the great champions who have driven for Ferrari have always been asked to put the interests of the team above their own. This is the moment to stay calm, avoid polemics and show humility and determination in making one’s own contribution, standing alongside the team and its people both at the track and outside it.”

It's the classic quote by Luca "No one is bigger than Ferrari".

The exact same attitude that is shining through now: Frustration, perhaps a belief that he deserves better. No doubt he does, but the way one achieves that, well... lets just say that nothing beneficial will come from the comments made at Suzuka. The Hungary incident back in 2013 just shows the level of frustration by Alonso and that little was rosy even way before Alonso quit the team. Who quit who? Does it really matter? The above highlights nicely how much of that relationship went wrong. When I look at Ferrari now; I see a team highly motivated and on the track to becoming a force. Has that all got to do with Vettel? Hardly, but he's sure as hell saying the right things at the right time.

My guess is; The team Ferrari was growing just as tired of Alonso as Alonso was of not winning championships. And at this rate, he's not exactly building a very motivating place at McLaren either, even if the problems are to be found within Honda. But who hasn't realized yet that that Honda relationship is absolutely crucial, has been napping. They are. Everyone of them and in times like this, a driver who is committed, backs them up is what is required - not public humiliation. And my point is, this not only starts when driving the car, but also when backing up the team, the engineers, putting on a brave face and believing in them. What McLaren-Honda need, are not only regulation changes, but enigmatic drivers who lead the way as a great example.

Drivers are the public face of their team. They bare a lot more influence than most of us give credit for.

[Andres125sx]

But they´re drivers, not diplomatics. A team principal would be different, but drivers are drivers.

BTW, you keep comparing with Vettel...

Helmut Marko, Red Bull's motorsport adviser, told the four-time champion after April's Chinese Grand Prix to adapt his driving and stop complaining about the car and new rules.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/27830986
Vettel complaining about RBR just in first season he can´t fight for a championship was too funny

That´s far from the perfect team player you´re describing. Actually if you compare this with Alonso, Fernando has always been a lot more patient and has kept supporting the team much longer.

[diffuser]

I am well aware that my post might seem rather harsh, but let me clarify a few points I think are being overlooked:


Drivers are the public face of their team. They bare a lot more influence than most of us give credit for.

I don't really care. He was wrong with his remarks but I understand them. As far as I am concerned, it's water under the bridge.
Despite all the stuff you mentions everyone at Ferrari Begged him to stay ...all the way down to James Allison http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/05/10/ ... t-ferrari/.

[McG]

I saw progress for McLaren in that race. They weren't getting overtaken as easy as in past races.

I'm still pessimistic about McLaren Honda ever getting close to winning a championship though.