NuVinci CVP Transmission

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joseff
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 11:53

NuVinci CVP Transmission

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Not F1 related, but might be interesting to many here:

The NuVinci CVP Transmission, basically a variation on the toroidal CVT:
http://www.fallbrooktech.com/NuVinci.asp

basrawi
basrawi
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Joined: 25 Jul 2006, 01:34

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well it is related williams tested this kind of transmission back in the 90's but the rules didnt allow it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3UpBKXMRto
M Basrawi

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joseff
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 11:53

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Nah, IIRC the Williams one was a belt type CVT. Obviously these guys claim theirs is "new".

Carlos
Carlos
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

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Would'nt the transmission be limited on the amount of power it could transmit, dependent on the co-efficent of friction of it's balls, whether they are alluminum, polymer, carbon fiber or brass?

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checkered
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

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They might've

worked their way around the mechanistic friction coefficient, if I understood it correctly, by having the transmission being submerged in a liquid. I didn't explore it very carefully yet (this was in their promo video, take a look), but the liquid is supposed to solidify in high pressure, i.e. when it's compressed between the ball and the adjoining surface. The mechanical parts are evidently not in physical contact. Obviously one has to look at this in more detail.

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greenpower dude reloaded
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Joined: 29 Dec 2005, 20:03
Location: Portsmouth, UK

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Well, belive it or not I actually have one and just to make it all harder for you to belive I'm racing it tomorrow around the Top Gear Test Track (dunsfold Park) on an electric racing car.

It really is a brilliant peice of kit. The company sponsored my team one and I must say it gives me such an advantage being able to be in the perfect ratio all of the time.

anyway I'll be back on later I need to check over the car have a look at http://www.horsfallracing.co.uk Our car uses a 600w motor (we often run it up to 1200w) so it can handle a fair amount of power for a Bicycle hub.
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checkered
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greenpower dude reloaded wrote:Well, belive it or not I actually have one and just to make it all harder for you to belive I'm racing it tomorrow around the Top Gear Test Track (dunsfold Park) on an electric racing car.

It really is a brilliant peice of kit. The company sponsored my team one and I must say it gives me such an advantage being able to be in the perfect ratio all of the time.

anyway I'll be back on later I need to check over the car have a look at http://www.horsfallracing.co.uk Our car uses a 600w motor (we often run it up to 1200w) so it can handle a fair amount of power for a Bicycle hub.
Impressive. The best

of luck as you're heading for a date with The Stig's stomping ground. Watch out for Clarkson, he tends to leave his sarcastic comments littering the grounds, unsuspecting visitors have found stepping on them to be a less than pleasant introduction to Dunsfold Park. Was it "Chicago" (anticlockwise) where you're not supposed to lift?

How much energy loss is associated with the CVP? I didn't pay too much attention to NuVinci's website yet, but from the video it seemed that the variability didn't necessarily respond to a certain "perfect" ratio but that the ratio was directly controlled by the cyclist. Can you automatically keep the engine in a certain rev range?

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joseff
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 11:53

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A singlespeed bike is 95%-99% efficient, even with dirty chain.
A traditional derailleur setup is 85%-95%, depending on which gear you're in (chainline)

So for NuVinci to compete in the bike market they have to be 80+ efficient and weigh <1.5kg.

Carlos
Carlos
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

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If anyone in North America is interested in experimenting with a lightweight version of the CVP transmission, here is a link. I don't have a site for Europe or anywhere else. Must be available though.

http://www.seattlebikesupply.com/

joseph - Thanks for introducing this technology. Already one of my friends wants to build a 3 wheel platform with electric motor. Good ideas travel fast

greenpower dude reloaded - Good luck tomorrow at the track. Hope you'll post a performance and technical report.

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joseff
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According to phil's velo blog

The hub weighs 4.2kg (!!!) but has a nice 97% efficiency at 1:1, dropping slightly either way off-center. Wow. My daily bike (16" folder) weighs 9kg. Can't imagine a 4+kg transmission.

4.2kg shouldn't be a problem on electric cars though.

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greenpower dude reloaded
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Joined: 29 Dec 2005, 20:03
Location: Portsmouth, UK

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Well, not my best race that's for sure. The Hub proved excellent again allowing me to keep the amp draw down to exactly the right level at all times!

We have a gear change indicator set up with 6 lights which tells the driver how many amps they are drawing we try to keep to between 19-23amps. we seem to just be throwing efficiency away somewhere but it's certainly not the hub. We also had a problem with a king pin mount.

So as I said not our best outing!

Joseff, 4.2kg is more than I would be happy with it weighing especially as it's about 10% of the overall weight of the rolling chassis however weight doesn't matter too much its more about aerodynamics now.

...so that leads me nicely on to this.. Is there anyone on here that would have any tips for me on aero or anything else for that matter! There are plenty of pics on my website just drop me an email through the site
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Carlos
Carlos
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Do electric motors lose power when hot? Could overheating result in more current draw? Cool the motor? I'm not knowledgable about E-motors but I remember reading something like this about 40 years ago... or saw a graph. Might have been in a slotcar magazine.

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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

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Carlos wrote:Do electric motors lose power when hot? Could overheating result in more current draw? Cool the motor? I'm not knowledgable about E-motors but I remember reading something like this about 40 years ago... or saw a graph. Might have been in a slotcar magazine.
yes they dot



BUT im not sure what motor they use the New Gen motor we used in solar car was over 95% efficient so there is very little heat during normal operating

Green power dude are these cars like the electrithon cars we have in the states 24v power with two twelve volt led acids?

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greenpower dude reloaded
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Joined: 29 Dec 2005, 20:03
Location: Portsmouth, UK

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yeah they are 24v volt cars powered by standard issue lead acid batteries and brushed motor :( your right they do lose efficiency when hot but I have managed to get it running pretty cool now. I have no information on how much of a drop there is, but its noticable.
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Carlos
Carlos
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greenpower dude reloaded. I had a list of sites that included specs and a parts shop for your race series. You posted some links also. Could you post information so that we can consider solutions based on specs? I remember that motors, switching, batteries and "throttles" were standardized ... but what is open to electrical engineering? ( Like I even know what that means.) :wink:

I remember a Lola CANAM car that used your rounded front end. It generated so much lift they had to put a wing on it. Could that contribute to overall drag. There was an aero F1T thread on a model race car competition. Might be worth looking up. A mild undertray tunnel with a duct to cool the engine ( if you can feel the drop... it's severe) with a rear defuser. These could be engineered into the current body. Another bit of annoying advice and commentary. Recess the driver below the upper profile body surface and put a large clear plastic windshield following the current front end profile. Definitely consider new front aero. Allard Le Mans car has some inspirations. Inspires me anyway. But then I'm not making bodyplugs and doing actual design and construction. (Sigh) :)

EDIT - Then again, if the front body profile generates lift - it would generate downforce if used in the rear fender profile.