VW cheat emissions test with "defeat device"

[langwadt]

Never going to happen, its far to easy to fake and it raises issues with all the other cars out there with remaps, custom ECUs etc.

It would require a change in the law and retroactively applying it would cause big trouble.

I'd say that remaps and custom ECUs on anything sold since ~1990 when cats and emission standards became a thing,
is on shaky ground already. The is little point in test and emission standards for manufacturers if anyone can go down
to their local garage and have their car re-flashed for max power/economy with no regard for emissions

[ChrisM40]

As long as the car passes the required test they are not in the least illegal. My car has been remapped, it passes the smoke test, indeed there isnt even a hint of smoke. I suspect its a lot cleaner than a lot of cars going around with clogged EGR systems..

[NL_Fer]

As long as the car passes the required test they are not in the least illegal. My car has been remapped, it passes the smoke test, indeed there isnt even a hint of smoke. I suspect its a lot cleaner than a lot of cars going around with clogged EGR systems..

No it's not, that's exactly VW's problem. They probably didn't wanted to clog the exhaust same like you, so they kept the EGR closed, during normal driving. But now you and vw produce more NOx doing so.

[langwadt]

As long as the car passes the required test they are not in the least illegal. My car has been remapped, it passes the smoke test, indeed there isnt even a hint of smoke. I suspect its a lot cleaner than a lot of cars going around with clogged EGR systems..

I guess VW doesn't have any problems then, they just have to pass a smoke test which every single one of them can.

If you modify you car it is in principle no longer type approved, so until your car is run through the test required of manufacturers and within all the limits it is not "legal". They just don't go after people who remap their car, much, yet ..

[ChrisM40]

Doesnt work like that. Remaps sit in a nice little loophole, in fact a lot of modifications do, including bodykits, aftermarket alloys and a whole load of other non OEM parts. For the most part type approval only applies to cars at point of first sale or initial import, with a few exceptions. As I said a lot of remaps are invisible anyway

[langwadt]

Doesnt work like that. Remaps sit in a nice little loophole, in fact a lot of modifications do, including bodykits, aftermarket alloys and a whole load of other non OEM parts. For the most part type approval only applies to cars at point of first sale or initial import, with a few exceptions. As I said a lot of remaps are invisible anyway

bodykits and such don't directly interfere with parts that are responsible meeting tightly controlled emissions. Being invisible just means you are less likely to get caught

[ChrisM40]

Thats not the point, there is nothing 'special' about the emissions systems. The bodywork, lighting, brakes etc all needs type approval like anything else. Once you have sold the car all you have to do is comply with the MOT test. If they change the MOT test to make some parts illegal then so be it. Catalytic converts have to be type approved for 2001 models and onwards, otherwise pretty much nothing does.

The MOT test would become almost impossibly complex and expensive if you had to test everything, or find if a car had a remap, especially when they 'scan' as completely original.

[Tommy Cookers]

Thats not the point, there is nothing 'special' about the emissions systems. ........

there is if your ecofascistic orientation makes you believe in laws that you have created in your imagination

truly, I am shocked at the totalitarian antidemocratic inclinations revealed in green-minded people by this occasion
sorry, langwadt

one country has retroactively changed emission standards so that millions of vehicles have been in effect requisitioned without compensation
this was at least done by a legal process
(and those actual vehicles were of course all taken in by grateful neighbouring countries)

[langwadt]

Thats not the point, there is nothing 'special' about the emissions systems. The bodywork, lighting, brakes etc all needs type approval like anything else. Once you have sold the car all you have to do is comply with the MOT test. If they change the MOT test to make some parts illegal then so be it. Catalytic converts have to be type approved for 2001 models and onwards, otherwise pretty much nothing does.

The MOT test would become almost impossibly complex and expensive if you had to test everything, or find if a car had a remap, especially when they 'scan' as completely original.

so VW could just sell car with a software that passes the test, and then have guy change the software on the parking lot after it's sold and they wouldn't be in trouble? of course not that just silly

[ChrisM40]

Thats not the point, there is nothing 'special' about the emissions systems. The bodywork, lighting, brakes etc all needs type approval like anything else. Once you have sold the car all you have to do is comply with the MOT test. If they change the MOT test to make some parts illegal then so be it. Catalytic converts have to be type approved for 2001 models and onwards, otherwise pretty much nothing does.

The MOT test would become almost impossibly complex and expensive if you had to test everything, or find if a car had a remap, especially when they 'scan' as completely original.

so VW could just sell car with a software that passes the test, and then have guy change the software on the parking lot after it's sold and they wouldn't be in trouble? of course not that just silly

OEMs have to supply and fit Type approved parts (or software), some guy with a computer around the corner does not. As I said there are some exceptions, but it wasn't even illegal to remove the cat until recently. Now rather than fit a plain pipe people just smash out the matrix so it looks like the cat is still doing its job. Its not illegal to remove, say the EGR system either since there is no requirement to have one, the requirement is just that you have to pass any emissions test. The manufacturer got the car type approved, all you have to do is pass the MOT emissions test.

Individual cars dont even have to pass type approval, the manufacturer just has to prove that the car will be reasonably expected to pass because the examples they provided for testing did. This is why EGR systems are so pointless on diesels, after a short time they don't function very well, and the car wouldn't likely pass the NOx part of type approval. They pass the MOT though..

[Carlos]

VW made several defeat devices to cheat emissions tests.

From Auto News USA
"During seven years of self-confessed cheating, Volkswagen altered its illegal software for four engine types, said the sources, who include a VW manager with knowledge of the matter and a U.S. official close to an investigation into the company. "
More at:
http://www.autonews.com/article/2015101 ... eport-says

[Tommy Cookers]

after Germany, the UK has the 2nd biggest VW-emissions problem
the Govt has already said for existing vehicles all privileges (initial and continuing taxpayer subsidy) will be maintained
regardless of the emission outcome of any VW remediation programme to the affected 1.2+ million vehicles in the UK

interestingly, $1000000000 of our taxes has been spent buying wood-pellet fuelled heating to replace old kerosene fuelled systems
because wood fuel (imported from the USA) is 'renewable' regardless of the carbon cost
this is millionaires residing in mansions - the average residential unit bought is 27 kW !! (commercial is a seperate scheme)
people are buying oversize units because the paybacks are based on unit size

so our tax money (though needed to service Govt borrowing $3000000000000+) has been spent on a scheme that ......
increases atmospheric particulates in residential areas
the same particulates that the same Govt tells us are 'killing' 29000 UK people annually

this scheme is about to end, because all the money has been spent in the first 18 months
just as new heater emission regs (compulsory only for the freebie scheme, otherwise non-compulsory) are about to be introduced

[langwadt]

after Germany, the UK has the 2nd biggest VW-emissions problem
the Govt has already said for existing vehicles all privileges (initial and continuing taxpayer subsidy) will be maintained
regardless of the emission outcome of any VW remediation programme to the affected 1.2+ million vehicles in the UK

interestingly, $1000000000 of our taxes has been spent buying wood-pellet fuelled heating to replace old kerosene fuelled systems
because wood fuel (imported from the USA) is 'renewable' regardless of the carbon cost
this is millionaires residing in mansions - the average residential unit bought is 27 kW !! (commercial is a seperate scheme)
people are buying oversize units because the paybacks are based on unit size

so our tax money (though needed to service Govt borrowing $3000000000000+) has been spent on a scheme that ......
increases atmospheric particulates in residential areas
the same particulates that the same Govt tells us are 'killing' 29000 UK people annually

this scheme is about to end, because all the money has been spent in the first 18 months
just as new heater emission regs (compulsory only for the freebie scheme, otherwise non-compulsory) are about to be introduced

They might as well admit that the emission standards weren't realistic, but sounded good

I reticently saw that residential areas with wood burning have more particulates that the inner city full of cars and trucks

[FW17]

Consumer Reports tested two Volkswagen diesels, with and without the cheating software activated. In one of the cases, a 2015 Jetta TDI got 53 mpg without the modification used to cheat, compared with 50 mpg with it. The advertised fuel economy was 45 mpg.

[DaveW]

Interesting, but what about NOx emissions?