VW cheat emissions test with "defeat device"

[FW17]

I don't think any manufacturer advertises the NOx figures

[DaveW]

If I were in charge of VAG (& I'm glad not to be), I would be funding more than one independent group to measure & then report on comparative figures for MPG, performance, carbon, particulate & NOx emissions in selected diesel vehicles operating under "real world" conditions.

Comparisons would be with & without "cheat" fixes, and with competitor vehicles. I think VAG have little to lose, & it may just help their cause...

If current NOx targets are unreasonable (& they may be), then that would be useful information.....

[autogyro]

Good call Dave.
It would need an unbiased media to work.

[Phil]

The only problem is that it's hard to compare them under a "level playing field". How do you measure a cars worth? Emission is but one component. And as it seems, sometimes, you pay more for lower emissions (a higher efficiency) because it's more costly. But as a customer, you then reap the rewards by paying i.e. less tax. And a lower fuel usage.

So what if there is a competitor that has a similar bad emission figure in the "real world"? It might have been sold under different premises and not under well constructed "lie" using a defeat device.

IMO the only thing that could VW is if other manufacturers are proven to have used defeat devices as well.

The emission tests as conducted by the state are already the 'level playing field'. If you create a new test for "real world circumstances", you can also manipulate a test-case that favors your car - and thus you lose credibility or open yourself to further criticism. It may just backfire even more.

[CBeck113]

VW has stopped the sale of all affected models:

http://www.t-online.de/auto/news/id_756 ... delle.html

This is for the EU countries, so they must be under quite a bit of pressure to take this action.

[autogyro]

A lot of hastle just to wean Americans off diesel so as to sell more gas.
Amazing what the oil companies and governments will do.
Mind you we now have uncontrolled immigration thanks to American shale gas.

[langwadt]

VW has stopped the sale of all affected models:

http://www.t-online.de/auto/news/id_756 ... delle.html

This is for the EU countries, so they must be under quite a bit of pressure to take this action.

it indicates that it wasn't "just" cheating as a stop gap to get into the American marked before they had a car ready to
meet stricter standards, but was a standard procedure for their main marked, that's bad ...

[NL_Fer]

If I were in charge of VAG (& I'm glad not to be), I would be funding more than one independent group to measure & then report on comparative figures for MPG, performance, carbon, particulate & NOx emissions in selected diesel vehicles operating under "real world" conditions.

Comparisons would be with & without "cheat" fixes, and with competitor vehicles. I think VAG have little to lose, & it may just help their cause...

If current NOx targets are unreasonable (& they may be), then that would be useful information.....

The testing agency that blew the whistle, compared the VW to a BMW diesel, and although the BMW was also emittting more Nox in the real world, it was only little more compared to the VW.

Also these were sold as Clean Diesel TDi, the image is worthless now.

[DaveW]

The testing agency that blew the whistle, compared the VW to a BMW diesel, and although the BMW was also emittting more Nox in the real world, it was only little more compared to the VW.

The report can be found here. It is an illuminating read. Interestingly, the two VAG vehicles were 2L/FWD, the BMW was 3L/AWD.

The report ends with the statement:

It is noted that only three vehicles were tested as part of this measurement campaign with each vehicle being a different after-treatment technology or vehicle manufacturer; conclusions drawn from the data presented herein are confined to these three vehicles. The limited data set does not necessarily permit drawing more generalized conclusions for a specific vehicle category or after-treatment technology.

Mmm... Hard to know what to say, really.

[Tommy Cookers]

some news
http://www.hybridcars.com/european-comm ... n-testing/

it seems to tell us how much more emissions diesel cars can make (than petrol ones) now and in the future
apparently 2-3 times as much NOx and about 50 times as much particulate ?
via the addition of 'Real Driving Emissions' RDE
(this will of course be a defined RDE test element that includes some scope for tailoring the engine to that test )

this amounts to an admission of incompetence and/or corruption by Govts
and we are told that Govt activities on air quality have always taken test emissions as representative of RDE
but nobody has resigned or been dismissed

Euro 5 and particularly Euro 6 diesel standards seem to be a fraudulent conspiracy by (mainland) European Govts and car makers
a fraudulent conspiracy in the everyday sense of these terms (though presumably not in their legal sense)

[MadMatt]

Took time but here we are, Porsche in trouble: http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/ ... i-porsche/

[CBeck113]

And now, for something completely different:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/03/volk ... ions-lied/

Co2 as well - this is going to get very interesting, but in all cases we, the consumers, will lose.

Tommy Cookers:

Euro 5 and particularly Euro 6 diesel standards seem to be a fraudulent conspiracy by (mainland) European Govts and car makers

You could've left out the mainland, since the British auto industry is dead / owned by German, American and Chinese companies. Other surviving companies like Ariel Motors can't be labeled in any way as industrial (you can see the shop starting at the 7:00 minute mark):
http://onlymotors.com/ariel-on-the-road/

They are awesome, but not industrial.

[Just_a_fan]

Japanese/Indian owned plant is probably more important in the UK than German or Chinese owned. It's the suppliers that provide the real economic benefit to the UK though as they will employ many more people than the actual car plants do.

Luckily for the UK, VW don't really make any of their cheating stuff in the UK - the German work force will sadly have to carry the inevitable economic fall out from that. I doubt Bentley at Crewe will be affected as buyers in that market segment probably won't care/notice.

[SiLo]

It wont be long before the regulations are overhauled anyway I assume. Which could cost car manufacturers a lot of money if they haven't actively been developing cleaner engines and have been skirting close to the wind with tests.

[Just_a_fan]

Rest assured that the bill for any changes will be handed to the consumer! There will be a price rise/specification reduction from the manufacturers and an "environmental" tax rise from the politicians. Either way we will pay.