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What would have YOU done in Rossi's place?
I'm sure you would have kept on racing to the limit against Marquez, with your direct opponent running away from you, under the constant risk of falling down because of such battle (thus loosing the championship)...
What Rossi did was a machiavellian move. That's it...no big deal.
BTW Rossi "warned" Marquez, but Marquez decided to ignore that and further provoke Rossi. Not that it makes the move much less immoral, but everything needs to be contextualized...
variante wrote:What would have YOU done in Rossi's place?
Take my own d***k and put it under my own a**. That would be more fun than such an unprofessional behavior on track and landing up at end of grid for next race.
What was he thinking? "Hey MM, I have grown so old that my balls have started hanging badly. I can't overtake you and this is the only way I can BEAT you." Clearly shows his brain has gone for dogs.
I have never seen any racer trying to stop the another racer and trying to have a fight on the circuit. Worse than the street fighters. Shame on FIM. They have badly compromised the integrity of sport and now it is OK to have a physical go at someone on the circuit, even at the cost of risking great physical danger, if you are in title fight. Way to go FIM.
No way. Rossi ran him to the outside. Marquez still had a couple of feet, Marquez turned in to Rossi and Rossi used his leg to push the Honda off him.
Marquez was playing games, block passes, passing in corners that was only ever going to slow them both. He let Lorenzo past without any resistance. Poor form on Marquez side. Poor form. Let the Yams fight fair and square p**s off 93.
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variante wrote:BTW Rossi "warned" Marquez, but Marquez decided to ignore that and further provoke Rossi. Not that it makes the move much less immoral, but everything needs to be contextualized...
wasn't he showing him the let's not fight and close the gap gesture?
turbof1 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q4KCB-M0p8
Looks like Marquez first leaned on Rossi's knee. However, after that Rossi kicked/pushed with his leg towards Marquez.
True, because at that point they both were far off the racing line, so they both should have leaned the bike to recover the racing line. It´s seen perfectly from the helicopter pov. Instead of that, Rossi slow down further and kick Marquez
Rossi went too far this weekend, what we experienced on Thursday and today should not happened.
With that being said Marquez today looked like somebody having nothing to lose.
It looked like that because that´s exactly the situation, Marquez today had nothing to loose, it was Rossi who was forced to be careful, Marquez had nothing to lose so he was fighting for 3rd place of the podium as hard as he has always fight in race conditions.
f1316 wrote:The move itself from Rossi seemed calculated to me. At the very least he wanted to run him wide and get him out of the way.
But I'm also convinced that Marquez was doing exactly what Rossi accused him of - deliberately letting Lorenzo past and holding up Rossi to help Lorenzo in the championship. Can you imagine the frustration you'd feel if someone did that to you? It was personal from Marquez and, frankly, extremely unsportsmanlike.
It went personal from the moment Rossi accused Marquez in last race about favouring Lorenzo. That was defaming Marquez with no reason, at least if you can´t explain why he passed Lorenzo too.
cirrusflyer wrote:This!
For decades it is known that in the last races you move away for guys that are fighting for Championchips! It is almost unwritten rule.
What???
I´ve been watching 125/250/500cc or Moto3/Moto2/MotoGP the last 25 years and I´ve never seen/heard/read anything about that.
When someone is fighting for the title he always has the added problem of fighting with people who only care about that race so they´re a tough and uneasy enemy.
But that´s their problem, the rest must only worry about their job, wich is racing. I´ve never seen any rider moving away to let the title contender pass. Never. Not if they´re not team mates at least.
NathanOlder wrote:Marquez was playing games, block passes, passing in corners that was only ever going to slow them both. He let Lorenzo past without any resistance. Poor form on Marquez side. Poor form. Let the Yams fight fair and square p**s off 93.
Marquez went too long in several corners. In one of them Lorenzo passed him and moved away. But Rossi couldn´t do the same despite Marquez continued making mistakes because his pace was not as good. End of story.
If he´s frustrated because Lorenzo is moving away and he doesn´t have the pace to chase him, that´s not Marquez problem.
f1316 wrote:The move itself from Rossi seemed calculated to me. At the very least he wanted to run him wide and get him out of the way.
But I'm also convinced that Marquez was doing exactly what Rossi accused him of - deliberately letting Lorenzo past and holding up Rossi to help Lorenzo in the championship. Can you imagine the frustration you'd feel if someone did that to you? It was personal from Marquez and, frankly, extremely unsportsmanlike.
It went personal from the moment Rossi accused Marquez in last race about favouring Lorenzo. That was defaming Marquez with no reason, at least if you can´t explain why he passed Lorenzo too.
Reasonable arguing with an average rossi fan = no go.
The irony is that Rossi now probably has created the very situation he lamented this weekend. Marquez will be utterly and completely pissed at him, and I see it very likely that he'll give his position to Lorenzo now, if Lorenzo is in the need of it.
And in all honesty, if the situation is there where Lorenzo needs Marquez his position, I hope Marquez relinquish. After what Rossi did, that would be the best pay back. Rossi simply does not deserve a shot anymore on the title.
Long time no post. Been watching MotoGP exclusively lately - no F1. Todays incident has ruined the championship, see the end as to why.
Reading some of the prior posts I don't think enough credence is given to the view that MM was interfering with Rossi in Philip Island. Initially I thought it was gamemanship and nothing more, typical Rossi. But I went back and re-watched the race, and the onboads from MM at Philip Island. MM says his front tyre overheated, fair enough, but the eratic nature of his laps times suggests that there was perhaps more to it than meets the eye, moreover at times it looked as if he wasn't full throttle on the straights, and his entry into the corner at turn 1 several laps in a row resulted in a straight forward block of Rossi at turn 2 each and every time. Only MM knows for sure what was going on in Philip Island, I have no clue, but having watched the race again twice now I have seen enough to be suspicious enough of MM but not sure one way or another - which btw is what Rossi wanted. I'm just confused by the whole thing now.
Speculation aside, one thing that is true is that MM does race Rossi harder than just about any other rider. The pair now have history, and it is widely known that behind the scenes MM is aggrieved, even grudged at Rossi first for Argentina but especially for Assen which MM thought was an unfair ruling in Rossi's favour. Whether or not he wants to help Lorenzo win the title is up for debate, I don't think MM see's it that way, but he is for sure racing Rossi harder than Lorenzo and the effect is nevertheless the same.
Regarding today. Leading up to the incident MM again was racing Rossi very hard, Lorenzo again got off easy, though I believe Lorenzo was simply faster in race trim. Nevertheless the racing was very hard between Rossi and MM, a racer tweeted (can't remember his name) that it was going to end up in tears regardless because it was soo tough.
My first reaction after MM went down was that Rossi pulled over and kicked out at MM to deliberately to put him off his bike - straight forward DSQ. Subsequent to that there have been slow mo replays released which makes things more obvious. It is undeniable fact that Rossi deliberately pushed MM out wide. It is also undeniable fact from all angles that MM leaned on Rossi leg first and Rossi kicked out to push him off. Those facts taken together make me believe that MM falling was unintentional by Rossi, nevertheless I feel Rossi overstepped the mark aggressively and deliberately forcing MM over to the side of the track - but I think MM has something to answer for too.
Race direction had the foresight to wait until after the race to make a decision whereas commentators, pundits and racing fans the world over were out in force delivering their own opinion, judge, jury and executioner. Opinions are like assholes, and mine is as disgusting as the next.
Many don't think 3 penalty points was enough. But consider what it means for the championship. Rossi starts at the back in Valencia, personally I don't see him getting top 3. So from that perspective this incident has probably cost Rossi the championship, cost his 10th premier class world crown, and potentially the title as the greatest bike racer of all time.
If Rossi wins the championship the punishment will not be considered harsh enough. If he losses the championship as a result many will view it as being too harsh. It is an impossible situation to marshall, and because of that, the championship will likely end with a sour taste one way or another.
Rossi needs a Valencia straight out of MM 2012 play book to stand any chance. I can't see that happening. This incident has robbed us of the kind of fair race that this championships deserves going into the finale, and it has been one of the best championships I have seen in sometime.
turbof1 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q4KCB-M0p8
Looks like Marquez first leaned on Rossi's knee. However, after that Rossi kicked/pushed with his leg towards Marquez.
True, because at that point they both were far off the racing line, so they both should have leaned the bike to recover the racing line. It´s seen perfectly from the helicopter pov. Instead of that, Rossi slow down further and kick Marquez
This is a correct summary.
The telemetry from M-M's machine would confirm his complaint - that a kick to the front brake lever took him out.
Rossi carefully jockied into postion to do this, he can be seen clearly looking to intercept M-M, & he steered accordingly,
with no concern to ride the quickest line through the corner on racing merits.. such is the epitome of playing dirty..
But Rossi is, it seems, too big a fish in the game - to ever be black flagged, regardless of his actions..
& Rossi does still have the opportunity to win the championship, which he may well do - yet.. we'll see..
Will Lorenzo have a DNF? An engine failure perhaps, like Iannone in the last race?
Wonder what the Yamaha/Dorna prefered outcome really is.. true sporting, or politico-economic..
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"
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in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
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cirrusflyer wrote:This!
For decades it is known that in the last races you move away for guys that are fighting for Championchips! It is almost unwritten rule.
What???
I´ve been watching 125/250/500cc or Moto3/Moto2/MotoGP the last 25 years and I´ve never seen/heard/read anything about that.
When someone is fighting for the title he always has the added problem of fighting with people who only care about that race so they´re a tough and uneasy enemy.
But that´s their problem, the rest must only worry about their job, wich is racing. I´ve never seen any rider moving away to let the title contender pass. Never. Not if they´re not team mates at least.
Whell Andres, my english is very poor, so I wrote things wrong. I never meant rider should move away literarly. But riders with no prospect of wining title, never tangled with those who were figting for the crown at the last races of the WC.
I understand your passion for MM. He is from Spain too. So is Jorge and Dani... I am of opinion that Dani would not fight like MM did today, MM today simply rode dangerously.
I am writing again - Rossi did wrong. I am not his fan. I am fan of Moto GP and those moves realy killed this years champinship as previus poster mentioned.
About watching moto races...whell...have been doing this 19 years more than you do. Live - Brno, Misano, have been on Grobnik several times watching Kevin S. On his Suzuki. Been cheering for Mick D. And KR Junior and a lot more. Great, hard, strong racing and it was...well nobody ever pushed or run or cut into lines of rider that has been in close fight with his only competitor for the crown.
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Sorry but I disagree, I´ve never seen anyone being easy with one of his rivals because he was fighting for the title. Never.
About Pedrosa.... yes he was so considerated with them he beat them all
People is saying MM was too aggresive with Rossi as if he was Pedrosa but today changed his style.... but he´s Marquez!. Not so long ago Lorenzo was complaining about exactly the same, Marquez agressiveness, so please don´t ignore this, Marquez is not being specially aggresive with Rossi as some people it trying to imply, Marquez is being Marquez, that´s all.
Marquez did what he always do, compete and fight as hard as he can. Nothing new, nothing to blame. If that´s a problem for Rossi´s title that´s Rossi´s problem. Marquez is doing his job like he´s always done and you can´t criticize a rider because of that. Title battle is not his problem.
