Formula One's Engine Crisis

[dans79]

Or Vettels cars threw a spanner in the works by failing and costing him 75 points

It was only 50 points, Turkey was a user error.

[kptaylor]

I guess in theory they could adopt a PU performance award for...underperforming. The lowest performing PU manufacturer gets more tokens than the winning manufacturer. You might wind up with some manufacturers sandbagging at the end if they're out of contention just to try to gain more tokens for the following year, though.

Do the manufacturers develop the best possible PU in house, and then decide which aspects of that "best" PU to apply to the production PU via tokens, or do they just focus on specific areas where they know they have weaknesses?

As it's been said before, fixing/banning development artificially doesn't allow competitors to catch up. With aero, you can analyze what the competition is using and copy or base your development off of that and introduce updates during the season. With fixed PUs, it's hard to catch up even if you know the areas where you're weak.

[Jonnycraig]

Or Vettels cars threw a spanner in the works by failing and costing him 75 points

It was only 50 points, Turkey was a user error.

In fairness it was tongue in cheek. It was actually 63 having looked. 13 in Bahrain with spark plug failure, 25 in Australia with Brake failure & 25 in Korea with engine failure.

[djos]

Or Vettels cars threw a spanner in the works by failing and costing him 75 points

It was only 50 points, Turkey was a user error.

Tbh I think Webber lost the championship by throwing it away in the soaking rain of Korea, took Nico out with him Iirc.

It didn't help that AD was not a track he liked very much and also the finally of the season.

[dren]

I don't see any sort of PU crisis in F1. Red Bull created their own mess. The rest of the teams seem just fine. I like the hybrid PUs. I hope F1 sticks with this formula.

And yet this threat has 53 pages, half the field is rendered noncompetitive as well as half the field is struggling paying for them. All is not fine. That is not to say that these PU's are rubbish, not at all actually.

Isn't a large part of 'that' field running Mercedes PUs?

F1 is expensive, yes. It is more of an issue of the economic climate. Big money sponsors are rare.

We have four auto makers dumping large sums of money into their PUs. I expect a Ferrari vs. Mercedes fight next year. Honda should be in the mix come 2017.

[FrukostScones]

FOM paying for alernative engine development?

the whole Red Bull no engine for 2016 is a conspiracy by Ecclestone and DM to kill the "silent" and very efficient V6 Hybrid PU... that's what they plotted from the beginning.

[ScottB]

FOM paying for alernative engine development?

the whole Red Bull no engine for 2016 is a conspiracy by Ecclestone and DM to kill the "silent" and very efficient V6 Hybrid PU... that's what they plotted from the beginning.

Which could well kill the sport. Doing anything to suit the wishes of a guy who, with the best will in the world is presumably not thinking long term and another guy who will presumably up and leave if his team still aren't in a winning position after all this anyway.

If the gambit leads to cheaper customer V6's, fair enough. If nobody blinks and this extra Indycar esque engine appears, the bigger problem of Merc, Renault and Honda's response to that could become a genuine crisis.

I mean, if this cheap engine is to give Red Bull a route back to the front, it's going to have to be 'better' than the V6 hybrid, so why on earth would the manufacturers remain? They wanted the current rules for roadcar relevance, it's why Renault stayed and Honda returned. I'd imagine Ferrari would stay, because they have little choice, but the other three may as well go. Conversely, if the cheap option is kept from being 'better' than the hybrids, Red Bull pull out anyway.

[NL_Fer]

For long term reasons, the amount of money invested in pu development by Mercedes, Ferrari and Honda is not sustainable either, one could quit some day. Also no other manufacturer would want to step in, if it cost this much. Look at Renault, they are in, but a much lower investment than Honda for example.

But it is not so bad, just give the weaker two and any new player more room to catch up and increase aero in 2017 to equalize it out. And we would be good.

[ScottB]

For long term reasons, the amount of money invested in pu development by Mercedes, Ferrari and Honda is not sustainable either, one could quit some day. Also no other manufacturer would want to step in, if it cost this much. Look at Renault, they are in, but a much lower investment than Honda for example.

But it is not so bad, just give the weaker two and any new player more room to catch up and increase aero in 2017 to equalize it out. And we would be good.

Once there's greater parity between the Power Units, presumably the token reduction properly comes into play and the required level of investment drops.

Saying that, I'd imagine Mercedes, Renault and Honda probably measure their R&D expenditure in the billions, as long as their efforts in F1 can be depicted as benefitting that, either directly or in PR terms, the costs of their engine programs are pretty small by comparison...

[NL_Fer]

Agreed, but it is stille different tot Mercedes beïng a premium brand VS Renault.

[zack!]

Agreed, but it is stille different tot Mercedes beïng a premium brand VS Renault.

And so what ? Could you explain ? Mercedes premium, but smaller than renault in size, what do you meant exactly. You refer to their actual cash level, or different PR/marketing approach ?

[Just_a_fan]

Further rambling by Bernie. Accuses Mercedes of helping Ferrari ! The old guy really needs to go. Anyway, some might find this interesting:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/35059767

[Andres125sx]

The more I read about this, the more I think all this engine crisis debate has been caused by MrE himself

[FoxHound]

The more I read about this, the more I think all this engine crisis debate has been caused by MrE himself

It's a political game, devised to help his mate Mateschitz out.

[SoCalWJS]

The more I read about this, the more I think all this engine crisis debate has been caused by MrE himself

Wasn't he the one who argued so hard for going to a "greener" engine? (more fuel efficient and use of energy recovery systems). I believe that is what has driven the cost up so much, so fast.