Hamilton "lost" pace

[Andres125sx]

Has Rosberg just found extra pace from nowhere? Unlikely. Has Hamilton just gotten slower for no reason? Also unlikely.

Agree, now add to that the turn over was perfect to secure the final 1-2 for Mercedes....

[iotar__]

Has Rosberg just found extra pace from nowhere? Unlikely. Has Hamilton just gotten slower for no reason? Also unlikely.

Agree, now add to that the turn over was perfect to secure the final 1-2 for Mercedes....

Why didn't you ask those questions when it was Hamilton out-qualifying Rosberg early in the season, it wasn't unlikely then? Check the similar period last season when Hamilton was out-qualified time and time again, conclusion: nothing sudden happened and no one needed to "find" or "lose" anything, periods when one driver was quicker happened before and if you bother to count (I won't) you will find that overall it was close or Rosberg is quicker - scientifically and measured by time and not by agreeing. Race pace - the same, never a problem and starting first helps. Explain Canada, Spain, Austria, GB or even Malaysia or Australia. No need to find anything here either and it was close 90% of the time.

Now Mercedes will investigate Hamilton losing and being slower. What exactly are they going to measure? How made up failure to cope with minor adjustment to new tyre pressure rules from Monza made him lose the race four months later ? As a reference point they must investigate all the reasons for Rosberg slump in form early in the season but I somehow doubt they'd do that.

They "will" investigate so they don't have any material world reasons now except for driver performance and the only thing you can expect is silence, some marketing word acrobatics and/or washed down version of cracks in the chassis (RB's (TM)). Anyone buying this should investigate their brains instead . Can't you see it's a part of marketing circus and the only reason for it is demography and their overpaid face of a brand shouting about it publicly for his usual reasons aka excuses?

[i70q7m7ghw]

Why does any of this matter? Hamilton not winning after he's sealed the world title, is that really a surprise? He's been partying hard, drinking, crashing his expensive Zonda... the last 3 races were just exhibitions, nothing was won or lost in reality. Now Hamilton is doing the WDC tour, collecting all of his awards while Rosberg sits at home polishing the trophies he won this year knowing they're nothing more than a statistic now.

[Edax]

They "will" investigate so they don't have any material world reasons now except for driver performance and the only thing you can expect is silence, some marketing word acrobatics and/or washed down version of cracks in the chassis (RB's (TM)). Anyone buying this should investigate their brains instead . Can't you see it's a part of marketing circus and the only reason for it is demography and their overpaid face of a brand shouting about it publicly for his usual reasons aka excuses?

I saw an interview with Raikkonen once which was very insightful. He was telling that for ever race the engineers (Lotus) made changes to the car which made it feel very different. As an example he gave the fact that they changed the wheelbase of the car by a few centimeters which had a big impact on turn-in.

That makes you appreciate how much intertwined these car-driver combinations are and how close to the limit they are. We see the big changes like new wings, diffusers etc, they are able to feel and are affected by much smaller changes.

So when a driver shows decreased or improved performance it is always worthwhile to investigate. And when a driver says that something has changed on the car I am inclined to take his word for it and don't dismiss it as an excuse, because there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that even very minor changes can have a big impact on performance the better or the worse.

With Hamilton it might be between the ears,then again, then again with all the telemetry channels, inspections etc, the teams are sometimes missing problems. Remember this one (2012 jpn gp).

"Very, very unusual thing happened which I have never ever experienced before. The car was understeering like it was in qualifying, which it shouldn't have been doing, and then again it was understeering on my formation lap. So I thought it's going to be tough today.

"I struggled for the first 20 off laps, I don't know if it was before the first stop or after, and through Turn 14 I felt this thud on the rear and all of a sudden the car starting turning fantastically.

"So I was able to push and overtake guys, but it was bit late."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103206

Later it was identified to be a problem with the rear suspension.

[Godius]

I did not really understand the STR team order towards Sainz to swap positions with Verstappen, he had a really shitty pit stop (a usual thing for STR-standards) which wasn't his fault that allowed Verstappen to close the gap to DRS-range. Verstappen could not get past by his own and he was clearly not the better driver between the two on the track today.

IMO there´s no doubt Max is #1 and STR do all they can to favour him. This is not the first time they do it, as Vasconia posted they´ve swaped positions more than once, but always to favour Max. The only time it should have been the other way around, Max dissobeied the order and there was no reprimand for him

Add to that Hungary, when they even called to pit Max first despite he was behind Carlos, undercutting the spaniard instead of using that undercut so their driver in front can move further ahead


Yesterday in AD it was more of the same, only to allow Max flattening his tyres and forcing an extra pit-stop, finishing behind Carlos despite the preferential treatment... and despite the pathetical pit-stop for Carlos (once more), 6,6 seconds

In hindsight I think that they wanted Max to have a shot to challenge Grosjean for championship position (they were equal on points before the start of the race), but eventually Max made a big mistake after passing Carlos.

[ME4ME]

About the HAM vs ROS debate: I think it's just Nico's mental state that has switched lately.

Up until SPA last year he was feisty. Then he got warned by the team and got overly cautious. After a long period of self-doubt and trying very carefully to obey the team, I think finally some frustration started to build starting in Monza were he got the faulty engine, the old engine failure and therefor a DNF. Then at Suzuka he probably felt unfairly treated by Hamilton, which the team did nothing about. Then at Russia he got another DNF even though he started from pole. And finally in Austin he got cut-off by Hamilton at the start, once more. I think he is just done with the situation, realized he had to stick out for himself, and gained support when he did. So the momentum build up and there you go, he's performing better.

[dans79]

Up to an including Singapore, Lewis was out qualifying Nico by an average of 0.276 seconds, after Singapore the average swings to 0.191 seconds in Nico's favor. That's a swing of 0.467 seconds, You might get a tenth maybe even 2 from mental approaches, but your not going to see almost a half second swing at this level without a technical change of some kind, specially across multiple races.

[spiritone]

Did anybody on this board think that after nico made his stop and they decided to keep hamilton out longer that that was going to be a winning strategy???????? The only way it had any chance was if they pitted him for SS. His car would have been lighter and there was a chance he could have made a run at nico. As soon as they left him out too long there was no chance. Any one of us on this board could have managed that race better. I think as soon as they told hamilton that he couldn't go to the end he gave up caring about the race. His indecision on which tires to take on his last stop was because he knew he had no chance. When you have one person doing the strategy for both cars the strategy becomes, whoever gets to the corner first gets the preferred strategy, unless one car somehow makes a pass on track. Its the german way ( i'm german) we like to be in control. Will hamilton have the same engineer next year, i think there may be a change there next year,

[PlatinumZealot]

No. Bonno is good. I want Bonno to stay. Best engineer Hamilton has ever had. He is not the problem. The problem is the single strategist structure and a principal who is a Mercedes lap dog.

[spiritone]

Hamiltons former engineer from maclaren phil prew has been hired by mercedes. Just kinda wondering where he fits in.

Agee about toto, notice lauda has not much to say lately.

[Vasconia]

Why does any of this matter? Hamilton not winning after he's sealed the world title, is that really a surprise? He's been partying hard, drinking, crashing his expensive Zonda... the last 3 races were just exhibitions, nothing was won or lost in reality. Now Hamilton is doing the WDC tour, collecting all of his awards while Rosberg sits at home polishing the trophies he won this year knowing they're nothing more than a statistic now.

I remember Michael relaxing quite a bit after he achieved his title in 2004. His results were worse but there was not histeria to justify anything.

It has to be quite annoying at times to be Hamilton´s engineer. When the team says to Nico which strategy he must do, he does. With Hamilton we have 5 minutes of stupid radio discusssions about why this strategy must be done. And after this a few days of Lewis complaining in all the interviews and saying, once again, that he and Nico are not friends.

[SiLo]

Why does any of this matter? Hamilton not winning after he's sealed the world title, is that really a surprise? He's been partying hard, drinking, crashing his expensive Zonda... the last 3 races were just exhibitions, nothing was won or lost in reality. Now Hamilton is doing the WDC tour, collecting all of his awards while Rosberg sits at home polishing the trophies he won this year knowing they're nothing more than a statistic now.

I remember Michael relaxing quite a bit after he achieved his title in 2004. His results were worse but there was not histeria to justify anything.

It has to be quite annoying at times to be Hamilton´s engineer. When the team says to Nico which strategy he must do, he does. With Hamilton we have 5 minutes of stupid radio discusssions about why this strategy must be done. And after this a few days of Lewis complaining in all the interviews and saying, once again, that he and Nico are not friends.

IMO that's what makes him a more complete driver. He will question the team trying to seek any advantage possible to win a race. It's an absolute, single-minded approach and is what you need if you want to win championships.

[SiLo]

So apparently Mercedes made changes to the suspension after Singapore that affected the way the car felt to Hamilton.

See http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122093

Lewis Hamilton believes he will need to find half a second of pace this winter if he is to challenge Nico Rosberg at the beginning of the 2016 Formula 1 season.

Since the Singapore Grand Prix, a race where Mercedes struggled with its car and for pace all weekend, Hamilton has not felt comfortable behind the wheel.

After outscoring Rosberg 12-1 in qualifying over the first 13 races, Hamilton has since been second best to the polesitting German in the subsequent six.

How Hamilton lost his edge

Although Hamilton won in Japan, Russia and the United States after Singapore, Rosberg won the final three races of the year.

"I could pinpoint it [the problem], but I'm not going to say what it is. Let's just say the set up has changed a lot," Hamilton told Autosport.

"I know my race pace has generally been very good, but overall I reckon I've lost half a second, so I have to figure out how I get the car back to that area in which I'm able to exploit it more.

"Throughout the beginning of the season, and up until Singapore, the car was phenomenal, and I felt comfortable.

"It was really nicely set up, and it was really beneath me.

"But the team felt they had to make some changes, and after that it has not really been the same.

"It wasn't in the sweet spot, and it has maybe suited Nico's driving style a little bit more."

In looking to rectify the matter over the winter, Hamilton added: "I don't need to hope for things to change. I'll make it work.

"In these cars you have all these different tools and you can choose certain ones, but you don't always have the time to choose the right ones.

"Sometimes you get it right, sometimes you don't."

Hamilton plans to spend plenty of time working with Mercedes in a bid to get to the bottom of the problem.

"Over the next couple of weeks, and then next year I'll be there quite a bit," said Hamilton with regard to visiting the Mercedes facility in Brackley.

"But you still have to have a break, to step away from it because you think about it all year long.

"It's not about the number of days in the factory, it's about understanding the data and how you work and communicate with the engineers."

Knowing the drivers are very sensitive to changes to the car, it's not so surprising that this could happen.

[iotar__]

Why does any of this matter? Hamilton not winning after he's sealed the world title, is that really a surprise? He's been partying hard, drinking, crashing his expensive Zonda... the last 3 races were just exhibitions, nothing was won or lost in reality. Now Hamilton is doing the WDC tour, collecting all of his awards while Rosberg sits at home polishing the trophies he won this year knowing they're nothing more than a statistic now.

It is to Hamilton himself inventing excuse after excuse, strategy, car changes etc. why don't you ask him? BTW "I was relaxed and not driving at my best" wasn't one of them so perhaps you should forget about this one as well?

[OneAlex]

To be honest, as a Hamilton fan, I think he blew his chances of becoming a "great" with the last 6 races, and with Ferrari closing the gap he's probably unlikely to have another chance.

Obviously everyone has talked about the car giving him his advantage and him still not being on the level of others, but his pasting of Rosberg in the first 2/3 of the season was on the verge of sensational, not to mention close to record-breaking (in terms of consecutive poles etc). If he had broken those records and continued winning then I think he'd have earned the status.

As it was, he hasn't set the records and Rosberg comprehensively beat him in the end of the season, so I think he's going to have the same status that Vettel had. "Very very good, but not legendary and a lot to do with the car."

Just my opinion of course.