Hamilton "lost" pace

[dans79]

Your favorite driver won WDC and you write endless posts just to reduce significance of Rosberg`s pole positions and race wins. Rosberg won 6 poles and 3 races in a row,get over it.

Does it feel good to get that off your chest?

[dans79]

If you would put both of those together it sounds like Mercedes would be favoring Rosberg. And it would make sense, a German winning for a German brand would suit very well.

Not really, viewership in Germany went down again this year, and Lewis is a much larger personality globally.

[Juzh]

Very good topic.

[muhammadtalha.13893]

So either way its setup to go as fast as possible, same for both Nico and Lewis right. Now go figure why the so called best driver on the grid started all the BS.

"Same for both" is not necessarily true. Rosberg and Hamilton are running different brands brake systems (disks/calipers) as well as a different master cylinder arrangement. So from a braking viewpoint these are different cars and may react differently to a general setup change. Since the problem is in braking I think that cannot be dismissed as possible cause.

Braking problems you mention? There is something which might worry you even more about lewis' driving. There is an article on official f1 website, basically a Q&A with nico rosberg. The interviewer asks if he has still got problems with his brakes and nico said that he is still not comfortable with brakes and is working closely with the manufacturer as it is a long process because a brake needs six months of baking. So apparently nico ia beating Lewis while being handicapped somewhat because of his brakes. Go figure.

[Just_a_fan]

IMHO, it goes both ways. If what Hamilton says is true, then Rosberg was severely disadvantage through the whole season. The same happened to him that the car did not suit his driving style. But he did not complain and made the best possible outcome that he could and everyone kept praising Lewis for his winnings. Now that it turned the other way around, everyone starts to think of this as a problem. This probably cost Rosberg the championship and no one cared. Just my two cents...

Perhaps that's why Rosberg hasn't won a championship - he's not pressing for every advantage at every opportunity. Would Vettel, Alonso or any other champion "put up with" a problem or would they be searching for reasons and fighting for changes?

There is an oft said argument that titles are won by drivers in the best cars. One of the jobs of a driver is to get in the best car and to get that car working how he wants it to work. Hamilton, like Vettel and many others, has won in the best car because he's striven to make sure he's in the best car and then made sure the car is how he wants it.

If Rosberg ever figures that out he'll be in with a chance...maybe that's what changed in the latter half of the season?

[Just_a_fan]

Toto Wolff said a few things about the drivers' rivalry and how he did not like it

source: http://www.shropshirestar.com/sport/uk- ... oto-wolff/

Going forward, we will consider if it is the best set-up for the team. Personality and character within the team is a crucial ingredient for the team success.

"If we feel that it is not aligned with the general consensus, spirit and philosophy within the team, we might consider that when we take a decision, in terms of the driver line-up going forward.

If you would put both of those together it sounds like Mercedes would be favoring Rosberg. And it would make sense, a German winning for a German brand would suit very well.

No, you would suggest that Mercedes are looking for one driver to win them titles. And that, so far, has proven to be Hamilton. If they want a proven winner they'd go with Hamilton. If they just want a German figurehead they'll go with Rosberg. But if/when the field catches up with Mercedes you'd want the better racer in the car and that, without doubt, is Hamilton.

[FrukostScones]

I remember talk that the 2015 car didn't suit ROS like the 2014 did... maybe it suited him fine in the end of the season and HAM just neutral or worse.. whatever. Same car for both.

[dans79]

Perhaps that's why Rosberg hasn't won a championship - he's not pressing for every advantage at every opportunity. Would Vettel, Alonso or any other champion "put up with" a problem or would they be searching for reasons and fighting for changes?

Exactly, I have often read or heard that the most aggressive confrontations between Senna & Prost happened in team briefings and not on track. They argued vigorously over every change to make sure it either benefited them, or was neutral for both.

There is an oft said argument that titles are won by drivers in the best cars. One of the jobs of a driver is to get in the best car and to get that car working how he wants it to work. Hamilton, like Vettel and many others, has won in the best car because he's striven to make sure he's in the best car and then made sure the car is how he wants it.

Yep, just like earlier this year, when they changed the clutch springs back to what they used in 2014. Lewis complained because he felt they helped Nico, because they where less sensitive, and made the start easier to get right.

[Edax]

Braking problems you mention? There is something which might worry you even more about lewis' driving. There is an article on official f1 website, basically a Q&A with nico rosberg. The interviewer asks if he has still got problems with his brakes and nico said that he is still not comfortable with brakes and is working closely with the manufacturer as it is a long process because a brake needs six months of baking. So apparently nico ia beating Lewis while being handicapped somewhat because of his brakes. Go figure.

I am a bit too old to fall for that trap.

The way I puzzle this together is as follows.

- It was told by Mercedes that Nico gains his advantage by being able to brake later and deeper into the corners and that was a reversal from the status at the beginning of the year.
- Hamilton has said that something has changed for the worse since Singapore.

Despite not detailing the problem I think putting those together means that Hamilton has gotten a problem with braking, braking-stability or turn-in since Singapore.

Though there is very little data it looks to me like the Mercedes development stagnated or even took a step back from Monza going forward. Hamilton could not repeat his 2014 qualifying lap and Rosberg barely improved in Abu Dhabi. Then there is this strange performance in Singapore itself.

So all in all I think the story may not only be in Hamilton's head or a party hangover. Mercedes seems to have made a change to the car suspension, and this has affected his driving. It is not a matter of changing the car more to Rosberg's liking. Both drivers seem to be negatively affected. Rosberg maybe less than Hamilton, or maybe Rosberg has adapted faster, or is better in driving around the problem, who knows and who cares.

Big question is did Mercedes making these changes and not reversing them when they show no improvement?

Either the had something on the car and took it off not to get into problems with regulations (i doubt it was just tire pressures) or they are doing some pre-development for next year.

We have seen before that they sacrificed a season to develop and finetune the FRIC suspesion. The sacrifice when you are guaranteed WCC and WDC is relatively small compared to then. And in Monza they changed the engine for one which will only show its performance when coupled with the fuel in 2016.

Either way it is going to be interesting to see the W07 in nexts year's practice sessions.

[PlatinumZealot]

he didn't complain because he didn't know any better. The car was set up by the team to go around the track as fast as possible, not because it was set up to favor Lewis! The team made the change to deal with the tire pressure regulation changes, & to address the gaping technical problem that Singapore exposed.

[/quote]

Hamilton has graphs that prove that the car is slower relative the field. He hasn't posted them on twitter this time around though.

[Jersey Tom]

Oh goodness. A car isn't 100% perfect handling for a professional race driver's needs. What ever shall he do...

[Shrieker]

So flynfrog locked the other thread, I was late to the party

I'm almost convinced after reading the replies there (and here), whatever it was that caused almost half a second of a swing between two drivers in qualifying is about the new tire pressure rule and the related changes that Mercedes made. That will be a fresh challenge for Hamilton next season, considering Rosberg's pace after the changes.

[Vasconia]

So flynfrog locked the other thread, I was late to the party

I'm almost convinced after reading the replies there (and here), whatever it was that caused almost half a second of a swing between two drivers in qualifying is about the new tire pressure rule and the related changes that Mercedes made. That will be a fresh challenge for Hamilton next season, considering Rosberg's pace after the changes.

Which it would be great for F1 but not for Hamilton´s engineer who will listen to Hamilton´s complains every race.

[foxmulder_ms]

Up to an including Singapore, Lewis was out qualifying Nico by an average of 0.276 seconds, after Singapore the average swings to 0.191 seconds in Nico's favor. That's a swing of 0.467 seconds, You might get a tenth maybe even 2 from mental approaches, but your not going to see almost a half second swing at this level without a technical change of some kind, specially across multiple races.

Yes, this is exactly how I think, too. It might happen for couple races but it is really an intriguing development.

[PlatinumZealot]

The story goes like this:

From Monza it was almost inevitable that Lewis Hamilton was gonna win the WDC. Such dominance over the season and he made it look so easy. Playing Carninval over the summer break, grinding on Rihanna's bumper harmed his focus none at all despite the critics saying it would. As things were, Hamilton was a shoe-in. Toto was bored of the walk over so decided Singapore was a good time to test 2016 developments.

He gave the green light to test something - anything.

The only thing that was near to production was the new suspension concept Aldo Costa had on the 7 post rig since the FRICS was banned. Paddy the cool head that he is, reluctantly ordered the engineers to try the 2016 suspension concept in Singapore - the perfect track to test chassis performance. Man, this race sure came at the right time Toto reassured himself.

The new suspension failed miserably.

Still, Aldo Costa said this suspension is the way to go with the 2016 aero concept and it only needed more runs to get enough data. Aldo tuned out some of the issues for Japan but insiders leaked that the suspension was still a huge miss-match for the 2015 car. Aldo knew this and so decided to run the suspension on both cars to gather as much data as possible. The ever meddling Toto blocked this order. He said to Aldo: "Hey! mafia man! Nico's position is under threat from Vettel in the championship! Aldo! We CANNOT risk Nico's position. We CANNOT risk a Mercedes 1-2 in the championship! Aldo! Listen to me! If we need to do these tests, do them on Lewis' car... He can afford to win even if he finishes 2nd for the rest of the races. Trust in me Aldo. This trade off is the best to secure our 3rd Constructors in 2016."

And so, from Japan onward Lewis Hamilton has been playing the guinea pig. A real life, test rig for the 2016 suspension while competing for the championship! Only Toto Wolff could have played such cards... And no matter what Lewis could dig up in the suspension setting tables... he could find nothing to pin point his issues. Bonno played none the wiser as he was issued an order of silence on the matter. His subdued messages to Lewis the only hint that the proverbial gun was held to his head. Only the mechanics who held both suspension parts in hand at the same time noticed. Nico - the cerbero - was in on it - every denying any changes. Playing dumb he was. Lewis knew something was up.. a driver knows when the car changes.

Something has changed at Mercedes. The balance has shifted.