Honda NSX

[Cold Fussion]

......With modern gearboxes if you don´t want to bother switching gears you can put it automatic, so there´s no disadvantages and several advantages

does it go into automatic anyway, to prevent stalling in 'manual' 8th or 9th ?
maybe the same even in gears lower than those 2 ?

btw - the B&W type marine diesels will now run 10% power at 7 rpm all day

Most cars that I've driven will go into automatic mode when it decides the engine RPM is too low in that gear. Most systems wont allow you to bounce off of the RPM limiter as well.

[strad]

I think Cold Fussion is correct.. Common practice to throw a couple of overdrive ratios to get that top speed.

[NL_Fer]

Although it would be a wide band engine, it's a Honda. So redline would maybe be close to 9000rpm. A six speed would make very big drops in rpm, when redlining.

[Cold Fussion]

Having looked at the specifications, I've done some calculations and the results are fairly interesting. Firstly the engine specifications are as follows:



And the Gear ratios are as follows:



As far as I can tell from the drivetrain images and the specifications, it seems as though the engine is only connected to the rear wheels and the AWD they talk of is only from the front electric motors. From those numbers we can construct a pretty crude power curve for the engine, as well as visualise the meaning of the gear ratios.





Note that the car velocity was calculated for a rear wheel and tyre size of 305x30R20 (As indicated in the specifications). Having calculated this information we can see what the car's power vs velocity curve looks like when driven in an optimal mannar (that is lowest gear at all times without being on the redline).



What stands out immediately is that apart from the 1st to second gear change, is that the car has essentially constant power when driven optimally. The 1st to 2nd gear change is probably not so important because the car is more than likely going to be traction limited at 70 km/h anyway. Things get quite interesting when you consider that the car has an additional ~50kW on electrical power on-top of the maximum engine power (it's actually more than that but according to the specs it doesn't seem to operate all three motors at maximum power). With an extra 50 kW of power to deploy, the Honda engineers could basically have a constant power driving experience when the car is driven in this aggressive manner. I'm going to speculate and say the reason they use such small electric motors in this car (when compared to the other hybrid supercars) is because they've designed the whole package to provide this constant power experience rather than going for out and out performance (perhaps the small motors are more efficient at low power modes for city driving as well?).

It also clearly shows that 8th and 9th are there purely economy, though it's possible top speed could be achieved in 8th and not in 7th but I don't wish to speculate on the cars aerodynamics.

[mzivtins]

We are looking at the birth of the fastest real world, real road sports car.

With that constant power curve, every corner exit is going to be impeccable!

So now we just wait to hear how well it handles!

wow just wow!

[BanMeToo]

We are looking at the birth of the fastest rear world, real road sports car.

? what do you mean

[mzivtins]

We are looking at the birth of the fastest rear world, real road sports car.

? what do you mean

Sorry, typo, it was supposed to say real world, and by that i mean a car that is fast as an everyday car, useable power at any point, rather than pure racetrack situation, in many cases it is not practical keeping the revs up in the power band on the road for any vehicle, this thing is demon.

[Cold Fussion]

We are looking at the birth of the fastest rear world, real road sports car.

? what do you mean

Sorry, typo, it was supposed to say real world, and by that i mean a car that is fast as an everyday car, useable power at any point, rather than pure racetrack situation, in many cases it is not practical keeping the revs up in the power band on the road for any vehicle, this thing is demon.

Yes the car is very powerful, yes the engine is equivalent to a Golf GTI at essentially 2700 rpm, but there are so many other turbo cars out there exactly like that. To unlock the performance I showed you are still 'thrashing' it like any other car, maybe this graph help illustrate that:



I mentioned it was interesting because the car is setup up such that if you drive it in this manner, your average power is essentially the same as your maximum power which is pretty unique to this car, but that's not to say that this is the optimum way to make a car go fast.

And let's be real, the 'fastest everyday car on the road' is just a nebulous phrase that has no meaning at all. Practically all driving on the road is limited by the road laws (and in some places, for example Australia, the laws are extremely draconian) and your willingness to push them. Even something as mediocre as a Polo GTI is far more capable than the law will allow for, where the user is free from reprisals. Probably any car that has good handling (think something as capable as a golf GTI) and anything more than 80-100kw of power will massively outperform what the road rules will allow for.

Now if we are to define 'fastest everyday car on the road' as the fastest all weather, all condition car then I also have reservations this car would satisfy it. Remember that the NSX weighs a massive 1725 kg, this is quite a bit more compared to something like a 911 Turbo, while also down on power (if we ignore the electric motors because it isn't clear how they operate atm), while also not having the a proper AWD system like the 911.

[Pierce89]

1725 kg? They're calling a 1725 kg car "NSX"? That's blasphemy. This is more like a gtr than an nsx.

[FoxHound]

1725 kg? They're calling a 1725 kg car "NSX"? That's blasphemy. This is more like a gtr than an nsx.

My thoughts too. I have seen the online reviews, and they aren't promising.

An NSX should not be forced induction, with batteries in each corner. It should be a rear wheel drive, Naturally aspirated, mid engined tour de force, like the original. The only thing this NSX does, is increase the value of the older one.

This puts the fear of god into me for the S2000 replacement. And is a good reason to invest in an S2000 while you can, anyone reading this...just do it.

Honda have gone green, and lost their soul in the process.

[Cold Fussion]

1725 kg? They're calling a 1725 kg car "NSX"? That's blasphemy. This is more like a gtr than an nsx.

I mean sure it pisses all over the philosophy of the original NSX, but it has 9 gears!

Honda have gone green, and lost their soul in the process.

Honda lost their soul when they killed the Civic and Integra Type R (lets ignore everything beyond the EP3), the S2000 and the NSX

[FoxHound]

Honda lost their soul when they killed the Civic and Integra Type R (lets ignore everything beyond the EP3), the S2000 and the NSX

I don't disagree, but as a raving lunatic S2000 fan....I live in hope that the ethos behind those cars still resides in the halls of Honda.
It's all very well having your downsized turbo Accord, Legend, Jazz engine....but leave the crown jewels naturally aspirated.

I know this is the way of the world, but there is still space for these cars to exist today.

[Cold Fussion]

I don't think there's any realistic hope for an S2000 replacement to have an 8.5-9k NA engine. Outside of supercars and possibly some concept cars using bike engines, I think the NA engine is dead outside of the USA.

[FoxHound]

I don't think there's any realistic hope for an S2000 replacement to have an 8.5-9k NA engine. Outside of supercars and possibly some concept cars using bike engines, I think the NA engine is dead outside of the USA.

In limited numbers? As the S2000 sold in Europe? I would disagree.

The only issue is the CO2 rating for tax purposes. If mpg could be pinned at 40mpg, using the euro cycle, revs don't matter.

[flmkane]

1725 kg? They're calling a 1725 kg car "NSX"? That's blasphemy. This is more like a gtr than an nsx.

Lol yeah, that's part of the reason why the whole nine speed gearbox sounded warning bells in my head. They were willing to accept a weight penalty for their gearbox just for extra bling. If that design philosophy extends to the rest of the car, surely there is a ton of extra weight for no good reason.