Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[nevill3]

The rules stipulate the exhaust must exit within a similar defined area as this year, slightly increased to allow for two or three exhausts.

[PlatinumZealot]

with the 2016 exhaust regulations in place would teams be able to use coanda exhausts like in 2013 or will the exhausts have to be within the same area ?

It's impossible, the wastegate it's rarely used in the race since the team need to recover every kJ possible from the exhaust.

This is not accurate. It has been discussed at length in a number of threads that the wastegate is used more often than people think. They would not put in the new rules to improve sound if the wastegates were rarely used now would they?

[Joseki]

with the 2016 exhaust regulations in place would teams be able to use coanda exhausts like in 2013 or will the exhausts have to be within the same area ?

It's impossible, the wastegate it's rarely used in the race since the team need to recover every kJ possible from the exhaust.

This is not accurate. It has been discussed at length in a number of threads and yes the wastegate is used more ofyen than people think. They would not put in the new rules to improve sound if they were rarely used now would they...

Are you impling there is any logic in the way the FIA actually put new rules in both the sporting and technical regulations?

[hemichromis]

As i understand it the effect of the turbulent air as a result of the turbine muffles the sound, the high frequency in particular.
The changes should bring about a higher pitched and louder exhaust tone

[PlatinumZealot]

They would be really stupid to go as far as drafting up new rules on something we would barely hear all race. It would reach new depths of arrogance if they went trough such lengths to implement these new regs and we hear no perceptible difference. Not to mention the resulting laughing stock they would be. So, even if one did not have any actual data on how often the wastegates have been used It would be a good bet that the FIA have done their homework on this. Too much is on the line for them if they get it wrong.

[basti313]

with the 2016 exhaust regulations in place would teams be able to use coanda exhausts like in 2013 or will the exhausts have to be within the same area ?

Yes, they need to be in the same area. More or less the same rules apply for the exhaust and wastegate tailpipes.

[AJI]

They would be really stupid to go as far as drafting up new rules on something we would barely hear all race. It would reach new depths of arrogance if they went trough such lengths to implement these new regs and we hear no perceptible difference. Not to mention the resulting laughing stock they would be. So, even if one did not have any actual data on how often the wastegates have been used It would be a good bet that the FIA have done their homework on this. Too much is on the line for them if they get it wrong.

It's an interesting question. How much is the wastgate actually used during a race lap? One would assume that on a Mercedes not very much. I presume that Mercedes have found the perfect compressor and turbine ratios for an MGU-H setup with their fuel. That, coupled with near perfect harvesting and deployment of MGU-H energy and the ability to couple and decouple the compressor and turbine is what is giving them the edge. I expect to hear very little extra noise from the sound of a Mercedes during a race lap, but we will hear when the wastegate opens and closes. This will be valuable data for the other teams by giving them a better insight into how Mercedes are using their MGU-H.
On the other hand, during a quali lap (assuming the turbine is decoupled and the compressor is running in purely electric mode) there should be quite a noticeable difference.

[hemichromis]

Thinking about this i remember that red bull had by far the quietest, most muffled sounding engine. I wonder if that is because their waste gate is being used very often. I also remember that they were said to have the worst ICE.

The more i look into the changes they are making the more skeptical i am, the changes made should make a big difference in a 'normal' turbo car but in this formula the aim has to be to utilise every joule of power from the exhaust.
If this is done a waste gate is not needed at all.

[Abarth]

The new rule doesn't improve the sound because of better audibility of an open wastegate (which for best overall efficiency should not be open at all anyway).

It's because the wastegate duct, as it was up to now, acted as a sort of muffler / Helmholtz resonator, damping certain frequency range. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_resonance
With the separate exit(s), this is avoided.

[Tommy Cookers]

..... but in this formula the aim has to be to utilise every joule of power from the exhaust.
If this is done a waste gate is not needed at all.

often, to only utilise every joule (of energy) from the exhaust that would not cost (more or less) another joule from the crankshaft ?
though not always

the compressor rpm should be under continuous control, preventing any sustained wastegating in the race
are people saying this does not happen ?

[Abarth]

[[...]the compressor rpm should be under continuous control, preventing any sustained wastegating in the race
are people saying this does not happen ?

Seems so.

I'm pretty sure this happens only in qualifying, when the compressor can be run from the ES, and the turbine is wastegated to offer less backpressure to the ICE and thus some more power in total.
Don't think that in the race any sustained wastegating is done, why should they, as MGU-H to -K is not limited energy-wise.

[ian_s]

i'm hoping that this change will make it easier to spot when the cars are using full power mode. i'm sure they use this even in the race, when they want to overtake

[hemichromis]

The new rule doesn't improve the sound because of better audibility of an open wastegate (which for best overall efficiency should not be open at all anyway).

It's because the wastegate duct, as it was up to now, acted as a sort of muffler / Helmholtz resonator, damping certain frequency range. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_resonance
With the separate exit(s), this is avoided.

True but if the waste gate is not used it would make no difference to the sound at all.

[Abarth]

The new rule doesn't improve the sound because of better audibility of an open wastegate (which for best overall efficiency should not be open at all anyway).

It's because the wastegate duct, as it was up to now, acted as a sort of muffler / Helmholtz resonator, damping certain frequency range. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_resonance
With the separate exit(s), this is avoided.

True but if the waste gate is not used it would make no difference to the sound at all.

No, as I already explained.
Today, the duct from the wastegate goes into the main pipe.
It works as a muffler because of that. It has nothing to do with an open wastegate.
The new regs avoid this, as the wastegate pipe doesn't end in the main pipe. It's about no longer damping certain frequency ranges.

[hemichromis]

Ah i see.
This article
http://www.f1technical.net/news/20212 says this
"In 2014 and 2015, this gas was being fed into the main exhaust pipe, just after the turbine, which dampened the noise, acting as a filter for high frequency sound."