Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Joseki]

Honda's ICE down 70 HP to Mercedes ICE last year? I don't think so. Mercedes adding 40 to 50 HP to their ICE? I don't think so...

Wazari-san, last week the PUs were mated with the MP4-31, are the guys at Sakura still optimistic about the new PU after the first tests?

[GoranF1]

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 9581621248 https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 0355923968 Honda;

"Recent media reports have suggested a huge horsepower boost for McLaren-Honda in 2016. These reports are unsubstantiated and merely speculative, and we ask fans and media alike to treat them as such."

[FW17]

Honda's ICE down 70 HP to Mercedes ICE last year? I don't think so. Mercedes adding 40 to 50 HP to their ICE? I don't think so...

If Honda has found 70 more horses to add to the 2015 engine that is real +ve news

If the ERS-H is on generator mode all through the lap it is even better news

[Wazari]

I have not heard anything recently from Sakura. They seem pretty tight-lipped about things right now.

I just don't believe that Honda's ICE was down 70 HP to Mercedes' ICE at the end of 2015. Honda believed their ICE was "very close" to the top manufacturers at the end of 2015 and now feel there is no gap with their ICE to their competitors. It's all on the MGU-H/K side where they need to make huge improvements.

[hemichromis]

I have not heard anything recently from Sakura. They seem pretty tight-lipped about things right now.

I just don't believe that Honda's ICE was down 70 HP to Mercedes' ICE at the end of 2015. Honda believed their ICE was "very close" to the top manufacturers at the end of 2015 and now feel there is no gap with their ICE to their competitors. It's all on the MGU-H/K side where they need to make huge improvements.

I was hoping you would be confirming the Spanish report with the words 'At least'!!!

[sasa.nikolic]

I was hoping you would be confirming the Spanish report with the words 'At least'!!!

Yeah right, like "spaniards got it backwards, it's actually 322 hp .... " look at Goran's post, Honda told us to take it easy.

@Goran Can you please provide source/link?

[GoranF1]

I was hoping you would be confirming the Spanish report with the words 'At least'!!!

Yeah right, like "spaniards got it backwards, it's actually 322 hp .... " look at Goran's post, Honda told us to take it easy.

@Goran Can you please provide source/link?

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12479/ ... or-mclaren

[sasa.nikolic]

I was hoping you would be confirming the Spanish report with the words 'At least'!!!

Yeah right, like "spaniards got it backwards, it's actually 322 hp .... " look at Goran's post, Honda told us to take it easy.

@Goran Can you please provide source/link?

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12479/ ... or-mclaren

Thanks, missed it, very little time to surf today

[dren]

I have not heard anything recently from Sakura. They seem pretty tight-lipped about things right now.

I just don't believe that Honda's ICE was down 70 HP to Mercedes' ICE at the end of 2015. Honda believed their ICE was "very close" to the top manufacturers at the end of 2015 and now feel there is no gap with their ICE to their competitors. It's all on the MGU-H/K side where they need to make huge improvements.

I agree with you, the 70hp ICE deficit sounds a bit outlandish. Honda seemed pretty confident in their ICE towards the end of the season. A big gain in useable MHUG/K will be a nice addition.

Any guess on the PU's drive-ability? I'd think with how complex these new PUs are that the engineers were fighting all season to improve overall PU drive-ability. Maybe the power curve is so flat that it isn't as big of a deal now?

[Per]

Ok, average power is the key question. What are the figures? 600, 700, 800hp in a full race?

BTW, this is interesting that in Abu Dhabi when Alonso did his quick lap at the end he was 0.28 sec from Hamilton but this didn't result in closer to Mercedes speed trap. Somehow he did manage nearly to match Mercedes fast lap but with much worst than average speed trap. This means that closing the gap to 0.3 sec was purely only on full ERS deployment,

You are forgetting fresher tyres.

[j.yank]

Ok, average power is the key question. What are the figures? 600, 700, 800hp in a full race?

BTW, this is interesting that in Abu Dhabi when Alonso did his quick lap at the end he was 0.28 sec from Hamilton but this didn't result in closer to Mercedes speed trap. Somehow he did manage nearly to match Mercedes fast lap but with much worst than average speed trap. This means that closing the gap to 0.3 sec was purely only on full ERS deployment,

You are forgetting fresher tyres.

Hamilton best lap was two laps after his pit stop, Alonso lap was four laps after his pit stop. Yes, Alonso was with supersoft but for Mercedes at the end of the race the soft compound was better. Anyway, the point is that they were very close to the front without top speed at the straights. This means that only the average ERS deployment was in full regime.

[hemichromis]

Did Alonso do a very slow recovery lap before doing his fastest lap?

[drunkf1fan]

Hamilton best lap was two laps after his pit stop, Alonso lap was four laps after his pit stop. Yes, Alonso was with supersoft but for Mercedes at the end of the race the soft compound was better. Anyway, the point is that they were very close to the front without top speed at the straights. This means that only the average ERS deployment was in full regime.

When you look up the laps in between Alonso's fast laps it was basically a qualifying run with a little more fuel. Hamilton had 16 laps to run and a actually cared about his position and obtaining the best pace over the entire stint.

Alonso only had 7 laps to go or something. His in lap was like 16 seconds down on everyone else. He did a fast lap then again did a lap something like 25 seconds off the pace. At the tracks where teams do a second lap on the tires in qualifying, so like 5 laps, slow out, 3rd and 5th lap, fast laps on 2 and 4, that is what Mclaren did, but with like 2-3 laps extra fuel.

The difference in speed between trying the fastest pace over an entire stint meaning nearly average tire life usage on 16 laps opposed to not caring at all about the stint pace and taking absolute maximum tire life in two laps and using other laps to cool at the expense of severe lap time loss is basically not comparable.

Mclaren ran a qualifying run in the final stint, lost minutes, found clear track and charged their ERS fully, their lap times weren't impressive as they were notably slower than actual qualifying with similar track conditions and only marginally more fuel.

[wuzak]

BTW, this is interesting that in Abu Dhabi when Alonso did his quick lap at the end he was 0.28 sec from Hamilton but this didn't result in closer to Mercedes speed trap. Somehow he did manage nearly to match Mercedes fast lap but with much worst than average speed trap. This means that closing the gap to 0.3 sec was purely only on full ERS deployment,

You are forgetting fresher tyres.

Hamilton best lap was two laps after his pit stop, Alonso lap was four laps after his pit stop. Yes, Alonso was with supersoft but for Mercedes at the end of the race the soft compound was better. Anyway, the point is that they were very close to the front without top speed at the straights. This means that only the average ERS deployment was in full regime.

Hamilton's fastest lap was on lap 44, Alonso's on lap 52. So an extra 8 laps of fuel on board - around 15kg. That'd be worth ~0.5s at least.

Also, Hamilton pitted 6 laps earlier, so his tyres would have to last the extra distance (and why he had softs and not super-softs).

Alonso's lap times from his pit stop:
Lap Time
48 2'20.989
49 1'44.954
50 2'04.250
51 2'06.839
52 1'44.796
53 1'54.360

Lap 48 is the out-lap, but it also includes time in he pits and the stop itself, Alonso having apssed the timing marker on the way to his box.

Lap 53 was the end of the race for Alonso, as he was 2 laps down.

In comparison, Hamilton's times after he pitted were:
Lap Time
42 2'04.986
43 1'44.713
44 1'44.517
45 1'45.130
46 1'44.773
47 1'44.983

Alonso did one fast lap on his first flyer on fresh tyres, then two very slow laps followed by his fastest lap.

Hamilton did his fastest lap on his second flying lap out of the pits, his previous fastest lap was on the first flying lap after the stop.

In fact, the first 10 laps after his final stop were his 10 fastest laps in the race.

If Hamilton had done a late stop like Alonso, and done a qualifying style lap, like Alonso, he would have been significantly faster.

Vettel stopped earlier, on lap 39. He was behind Pérez after leaving the pits, by about 3s.

His lap time sequence after his stop was:
Lap Time
40 2'05.872
41 1'45.156
42 1'45.684
43 1'45.708
44 1'45.542
45 1'45.255
46 1'44.607
47 1'45.250
48 1'44.550
49 1'44.733

Vettel passed Pérez on lap 45.

Laps 41 to 49 were his 9 fastest laps in the race.

On lap 50 he backed off substantially. He was too far behind Raikkonen and clear of Pérez.

I believe Vettel was on super-softs.

To conclude, Alonso's fastest lap was set in a sequence of 5 laps at the end of the race. He did one quick one, his second fastest time of the race, followed by 2 laps 20s off the pace (charging batteries, letting the tyres settle), then his fastest lap and a slow lap to finish.

[ringo]

You would think Mercedes had 5 million hawsepowaz in their engine the way how the journos are slapping on power gains to catch mercedes over the past 2 seasons. 223? really? lol
I've heard so many 40 and 50 hp upgrades you would forget the fuel rate was limited.223 is just ridiculous.