Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Thunder]

I'm baffled why there is still People out there that think McLaren or Honda dictated anything to another. Building that PU is a joint Effort and BOTH sides seem Happy with the way they are going. Honda is eager to show they can make a competitive PU as small as possible (read the bit "Lucky" posted above) and nobody at McLaren will complain if they can shrink their Bodywork.

Sometimes in these Threads one could mean they work against each other......

[damager21]

Here is an Italian article which speculates that 2016 Ferrari could be 1.5sec faster. Too ambitious I would say. The article goes on to say that Mercedes and Ferrari will open a bigger gap to other teams as Renault and Honda will continue to struggle.

http://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrar ... zo-672804/

11 more days and I hope Honda performance would be a big tight slap on face of all these journalists who are trying to come up with these stories without any basis.

Also, Ferrari 2016 engine was fired up

[Joseki]

http://www.racestaff.com/job/f1-design- ... rs-182.htm

Something here is very interesting (at least for me )

Honda Racing Development (Formula 1) is recruiting a team of Design Engineer to join the business based in Milton Keynes.

We are looking for people with exposure to one or more of the following areas:

Composite, Energy Storage System (ESS), Energy Recovery System (ERS), Battery System, Cooling System, High Voltage (electrical components)

Ideally you will have previous Formula 1 experience, we will consider applicants from other forms of Motorsport.

INITIAL ASSIGNMENT:
The role will be based in Woking for 6-9 months to support current ESS development and project handover. On assignment completion the role will be based in Milton Keynes on a permanent basis.

ROLE:
You will work within the Energy Storage System (ESS) design project team and be responsible for conceptual and detail design of parts.

KNOWLEDGE, SKILLS AND EXPERIENCE REQUIRED:
* Strong Degree in Mechanical or Electrical Engineering or equivalent
* Metallic and Composite or high power battery systems or electrical or thermodynamics, fluid or heat transfer design experience.
* Previous Energy Storage System (ESS) experience would be beneficial
* Experienced at producing engineering drawings
* Good knowledge of materials and manufacturing techniques
* Familiar with CAD packages, previous experience of Catia V5 preferable
* PC literate

PERSONAL COMPETENCIES:

* Strong technical ability and problem solving skills
* High level of attention to detail
* Enthusiastic and self-motivated with high levels of initiative
* Excellent communication and teamwork skills
* Ability to plan and manage own workload/projects
* Able to work autonomously under pressure and meet tight deadlines
* Fluency in spoken & written English is essential. Competence in Japanese or another European language is desirable
* Travel overseas may be required

This job description may not detail some less major duties allocated to the post holder, nor cover duties of a similar nature, commensurate with the role, which may from time to time be reasonably required by the relevant manager.

So the new battery pack was/is developed at Woking? An then in September they'll switch the base to Milton Keynes (presumably to start the development of the 2017 ES)?

[amho]

Does anyone knows if Honda has a variable inlet trumpets? according to Motorsport mercedes had it in 2015 and Ferrari is going to use it in 2016 and they have made some packaging changes to make for variable inlet trumpets.could u guys estimate the effect of variable inlet trumpets on torque curve?

[Joseki]

Does anyone knows if Honda has a variable inlet trumpets? according to Motorsport mercedes had it in 2015 and Ferrari is going to use it in 2016 and they have made some packaging changes to make for variable inlet trumpets.could u guys estimate the effect of variable inlet trumpets on torque curve?

IIRC they had them since Jerez.

[Wazari]

I don't want to get into any arguments on a public forum but some things I know as fact. Unless both my nephew and Arai-san were lying to me in face to face conversations, this so called collaboration between McLaren and Honda with regards to PU size back in early 2014 was one-sided. Size, mounting points, weight and weight distribution criteria were dictated to Honda. From the get go, Mercedes type of split design was not an option. The former president of Honda told Honda Racing to give McLaren carte blanche and so it was. Arai-san and his staff started this project with a clean sheet of paper, but the size of the paper was not unlimited. I speak to this because this is important to me. When someone says that McLaren or Honda do not dictate to each, well that is simply not true. I personally experienced this with dealings with Sir Frank Williams and McLaren in the past. We did not have the last say and neither does Honda now. I would bet on that. Also Honda will never, never say anything negative about the constructor no matter what they truly think.

Also Arai-san quote as usual I think has been misinterpreted. First off that interview took place after the 2015 PU was already in use. McLaren did tell Honda racing don't worry about shrinking the PU any smaller after the 2015 when PP was overheard saying he wanted the MP4-31 back end even smaller. The Honda engineers nicknamed the MP4-30 "skinny a** chassis. Also Arai-san in ego-speak for Honda probably said that about shrinking the size. It's basically saying we can make it better and smaller than anyone else. When it can be achieved remains to be seen.

Sorry for this rant but this is a hot button for me. I still have dreams to this day about the demands and pressure placed on us not only from the racing director but ultimately the car constructor.

[gianluca.mateo]

Thank you, Wazari-san, I really appreciate your insights.

Seems to be a really stupid way to approach such a challenge though. I wonder how the 2015 car would have looked and performed with more flexible size constraints on the PU

[ME4ME]

Very interesting, thanks for expressing your opinion on this topic.
The first question that comes to mind is why would Honda allowed itself to be put in that position. Ron Dennis made it very clear that he did not think Mclaren would ever win a championship again factory backing. He had no leverage on Honda. Why would the former president of Honda tell their own racing department to let another company decide what to do? To me it sounds like openness that has spun out of control into self sacrifice.

[Wazari]

This is purely my opinion. I believe a group of top executives wanted to get back into F1 for the exposure. Some people at Honda, as other companies, try and live vicariously through all different avenues, F1 being one. Honda has money to burn and can justify to its stockholders that racing is in the name of R and D for the future commercial market. Seriously, reflecting back, why go into F1 racing? It can be very profitable for constructors but suppliers??? Honda had a willing suitor in McLaren. Mercedes has its own work team. McLaren doesn't have the infrastructure to build its own F1 PU. Ron Dennis wanted an "exclusive" PU for his team. Honda so desperately wanting in was willing to go in a year earlier than their ideal, concede to McLaren's size requirements and pay tons of money to be an engine supplier. Think about it; I'm going to pay you $60 -75 million to use our resources and product. Does that make sense? Racing rarely does. But boys will be boys and I was a part of that scene for many years. Ron Dennis has Honda's top execs' ears and everyone from Arai-san down knows that. Lot's of pressure and RD does have lot's of unwritten leverage. Relationships between constructors and engine suppliers are always like a marriage in constant flux. Rarely are both sides happy unless you've won a constructor's championship and that lasts for two weeks when you start worrying about next season. This is nothing new and I'm sure will continue as long as there is racing.

[Thunder]

If it was really like that and the former Honda President gave McLaren a Carte Blanche that must have been one of the most stupid decisions of his Career. That is limiting them in sooo many Ways to just be able to react..... At the same Time no one could really blame McLaren then. If your Works Partner doesn't give honest Feedback and Input about what they think is best how would anyone know what works best as a Package. That's almost a guaranteed Fail.

I can't quite believe it.

[Joseki]

If it was really like that and the former Honda President gave McLaren a Carte Blanche that must have been one of the most stupid decisions of his Career. That is limiting them in sooo many Ways to just be able to react..... At the same Time no one could really blame McLaren then. If your Works Partner doesn't give honest Feedback and Input about what they think is best how would anyone know what works best as a Package. That's almost a guaranteed Fail.

I can't quite believe it.

I think Honda simply underestimated how hard it was to win in F1 for a new manufacturer.

And I also believe the PR guys created too much expectation and too soon.

[Thunder]

Just for the Record, i don't say it didn't happen just like that. I obviously don't know anything about their internal Operations. But it's just hard to believe that no one on Board level talked some sense into his President.

@Joseki: Obviously they underestimated the Challenge, Arai himself has said so i believe. But isn't it then even more important to work it out with your Works Partner than to just say "Bring it on, we'll make it happen somehow" ?

[bauc]

Well, there is an old saying ''Size dose not matter'' and I hope Honda will prove it very soon

On a serious note, if the dims given by Mclaren early in 2013/14 and if the final product that we had last year was too small to give good prospect in the future, this concept would have been drooped already. I'm absolutely sure that both Mclaren & Honda do not want to go another season under the scrutiny & punishment of world media, competitors, sponsors and most importantly the fans. There is no ego big enough to go with the head in the wall if the numbers and simulations didn't give Mclaren Honda a good grounds to build on. Honda are not stupid, but they truly underestimated the scale of this project, and Arai said it few times saying the half of the staff have never worked in F1, and the other half has been out of ''playing condition'' for too long.

Stay positive guys, good times are ahead...

[FW17]

Are there any executive involved in their previous endower that ended in 2008 still with current F1 programe.

I guess they should have brought back some of those guys from Brackly to form a buffer between Woking and Sakura.



Imagine the reaction here if Fry was back

[f1rules]

Thank you! very much for your insights. To me this sounds, like the worst possible way to start a marriage A desperat partner and a control freak that put the demands unachiveable high, even its not within their field of expertise(PU design). Well i hope it turns out happy. Atleast with the knowledge Honda has now, hopefully they can and will challenge Mclaren more, if forexamble a layout change is needed.

I don't want to get into any arguments on a public forum but some things I know as fact. Unless both my nephew and Arai-san were lying to me in face to face conversations, this so called collaboration between McLaren and Honda with regards to PU size back in early 2014 was one-sided. Size, mounting points, weight and weight distribution criteria were dictated to Honda. From the get go, Mercedes type of split design was not an option. The former president of Honda told Honda Racing to give McLaren carte blanche and so it was. Arai-san and his staff started this project with a clean sheet of paper, but the size of the paper was not unlimited. I speak to this because this is important to me. When someone says that McLaren or Honda do not dictate to each, well that is simply not true. I personally experienced this with dealings with Sir Frank Williams and McLaren in the past. We did not have the last say and neither does Honda now. I would bet on that. Also Honda will never, never say anything negative about the constructor no matter what they truly think.

Also Arai-san quote as usual I think has been misinterpreted. First off that interview took place after the 2015 PU was already in use. McLaren did tell Honda racing don't worry about shrinking the PU any smaller after the 2015 when PP was overheard saying he wanted the MP4-31 back end even smaller. The Honda engineers nicknamed the MP4-30 "skinny a** chassis. Also Arai-san in ego-speak for Honda probably said that about shrinking the size. It's basically saying we can make it better and smaller than anyone else. When it can be achieved remains to be seen.

Sorry for this rant but this is a hot button for me. I still have dreams to this day about the demands and pressure placed on us not only from the racing director but ultimately the car constructor.