Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

[ferkan]

Something peculiar (to me anyway).

If sidepod contour is any indication, especially when compared to what they ran early last year, Red Bull seems to have adopted SF15-T's cooling layout...

http://i.imgur.com/jc6b2Y8.jpg

Mercedes has definitely adopted SF15-T's sidepod treatment...

http://i.imgur.com/RwnaNFr.jpg

And Ferrari has abandoned both in an apparent return to a design philosophy that produced the team's first winless season in something like 20 years...

http://i.imgur.com/KHJv7sR.jpg

Now the car's overheating after offseason reliability concerns?

I'm left to wonder if the team has outsmarted itself yet again.

(Not to be taken too seriously. Just thoughts.)

Interesting thoughts, although didn't RBR adopt that sidepod design last season as well, and they didn't have the same intercoolers?

As for overheating its hard to say since, IMO, Ferrari appears to be tightest of the 3 considering power output (RBR is tight, but severely down on power and Merc having giant airbox)

Would be interesting if they shot themselves in foot considering the time they had in wind tunnel to find the best possible solution.

[bhall II]

there is enough muddy water around here as it is why contribute?

It's 1,000% acceptable to question design decisions based upon available information. It's sorta what we do here.

For me, given two days of testing in which Ferrari's main rival has managed to complete nearly 70% more laps without a hitch, I'd say reliability just might be a concern this year.

[bhall II]

Would be interesting if they shot themselves in foot considering the time they had in wind tunnel to find the best possible solution.

That's sorta where it started for me. I wonder if the abundance of resources enabled by the development arrangement with Haas somehow caused the team to be a bit overly ambitious.

At any rate, like I said, they were just thoughts not to be taken too seriously.

[ferkan]

there is enough muddy water around here as it is why contribute?

It's 1,000% acceptable to question design decisions based upon available information. It's sorta what we do here.

For me, given two days of testing in which Ferrari's main rival has managed to complete nearly 70% more laps without a hitch, I'd say reliability just might be a concern this year.

They might worry more about SF16H pace then reliability. Being fast and losing because you packaged car too aggressive is something every Ferrari fan would take instead of being reliable but 2nd fastest.

Mind you, I don't think Ferrari is going to get anywhere close to Merc in speed nor reliability (in relative, F1 terms). Half of the car has old aero/concepts bolted on. I know about "great" updates coming to Australia as with every team and every year, but we all know how that turns out. It just seems like their engine guys have done massive work to claw back deficit that

a) was MUCH harder to achieve (given engine lead time, tokens, amount of resources and novelty of these PU)

and

b) had them go against a team that poured hundreds of millions of euros into it full 2 years before and was backed by one of biggest automakers in world (Daimler)

It just seems Ferrari's aero team is not doing their work good enough. Merc is moving at rapid pace, delivering new concepts much faster then Ferrari is, when the case should be reversed. I'm sad that they didn't sell 2016 engine to RBR as I think that would be a proper fight for WC then.

This is just my opinion based on very early days of testing and "cfd eyes" so guys don't kill me. [-o<

Would be interesting if they shot themselves in foot considering the time they had in wind tunnel to find the best possible solution.

That's sorta where it started for me. I wonder if the abundance of resources enabled by the development arrangement with Haas somehow caused the team to be a bit overly ambitious.

At any rate, like I said, they were just thoughts not to be taken too seriously.

Personaly I don't think thats the case. I do remember reading that 2015 intercoolers were bigger and heavier then 2016 ones (6kg), and their angled position is not exactly novel (Mclaren did that in 2014 I think). I just think that maybe, possibly however unlikely that sounds, they were a bit too optimistic about their deficit by the end of last year and Mercs ability to develop.

Just by looking at Vettel's body language today I can see that he expected more, I'm sure of it.

[giantfan10]

there is enough muddy water around here as it is why contribute?

It's 1,000% acceptable to question design decisions based upon available information. It's sorta what we do here.

For me, given two days of testing in which Ferrari's main rival has managed to complete nearly 70% more laps without a hitch, I'd say reliability just might be a concern this year.

so mercedes with an evolution of their engine does 170+ laps and ferrari does 127 with radical changes to their engine and stopped the car because they saw some temperature hit a limit after 2 GPs distance and that is a reason to jump to the conclusions you did? i guess so if thats what you want to do its your prerogative.I recall Mercedes doing the same thing last year as far as racking up laps in testing ,turns out their car was not bulletproof and was less mechanically reliable than Ferrari.
i prefer to look at it from a common sense point of view so we will agree to disagree.

[bhall II]

...jump to the conclusions you did?

No conclusions. Only questions.

[evered7]

Better to have these issues in the testing phase and find a solution than to retire with 3 laps to go.

Maybe Ferrari might have to hack it a little at the back like RB did a couple of seasons ago. It is a lot of changes in one swing, so getting it right in the first couple of days will be a tough task.

As long as they keep going at it to find a solution, it should be all right. I was more worried about the gear box and that has been doing well without any glitches, I think.

Personally I think the SF15T's side pod resembles a bit like its predecessor. The new one starts sloping right after the start of the pod. Whereas the 14T and 15T both had a bit of a flat area before sloping. At least that is how it seems from the side view.

[bhall II]

Incidentally...
https://twitter.com/sebscottf1/status/7 ... 6864256000

[giantfan10]

Mind you, I don't think Ferrari is going to get anywhere close to Merc in speed nor reliability (in relative, F1 terms). Half of the car has old aero/concepts bolted on.you look at the 2016 Ferrari and see half of the car with old aero concepts bolted on? the front and rear wings are 2015 spec along with the diffuser the entire rest of the car has been changed.. different front suspension different nose tighter coke bottle than mercedes different engine block completely different engine architecture[/

It just seems Ferrari's aero team is not doing their work good enough. Merc is moving at rapid pace, delivering new concepts much faster then Ferrari is
so lets review Mercedes is also running 2015 wings and diffuser... they bolted on some radical looking barge board and presto they are moving at a rapid pace in the second day of the test.. really?

Just by looking at Vettel's body language today I can see that he expected more, I'm sure of it. now Vettel who said that ferrari pinpointed their weaknesses and improved in every area is showing the body language that he expected more

some facts for ya .... at this point in testing Mercedes with an evolution of last years car ABSOLUTELY should be running 150+laps with minimal issues they worked on improving combustion and may have changed their turbocharger along with upgrading cooling solutions.

Ferrari changed their turbocharger,changed their engine block, upgraded their cooling solution, changed their nose moved their intercooler moved their MGU-K , installed variable intake trumpets and redesigned the entire aero concept of the car and 2 days into running that car they are expected to be mirroring mercedes who just evolved their 2015 car really?

[giantfan10]

Incidentally...

https://twitter.com/sebscottf1/status/7 ... 6864256000

so what conclusion did you come to after finding out that tidbit?

[Mat-tes]

Something that people had noted for the first and second test session is that they are not running the cooling vents on the side compare to the launch spec on Friday.
Also as some noticed and it seems logical, the weird curve on the side profile of the airbox might indicate that an opening will be there at some point, to cool what I'm not sure.
It seems to me as they are trying to see how much charge they can place on the engine before overheating with minimal cooling vent prior to opening more areas like Mercedes has already done with their huge airbox. Also they have new component from Shell or they will soon (can't remember where I read that), maybe some oil that can withstand higher running temperature, hence the tighter package.
Also, having a failure 4 minutes before the end of the session is probably the best time to have one, you can learn from it without loosing time on testing. Some might say it's better to not have the failure at all, but better have it now than in the actual race.

After all we are just at the second session of eight, so there might be plenty more to come in package and aero bits + Raikkonen as yet to have a go at the car, so maybe major change will come after he as well ran the car for two sessions to compare data between drivers.

[bhall II]

so what conclusion did you come to after finding out that tidbit?

Contrary to what you may think, I'm fully aware of the dynamics here.

Yes, Ferrari's package is a significant departure from last year's design; it's "bold" to use James Allison's description. And yes, Mercedes' concept is more of an evolutionary step, one centered around a power unit that was prototyped as early as last season. So, of course, it's not at all surprising that the two teams are currently at different states of readiness. But, exactly what does that change?

Do you think the engineers at Mercedes are going to sit around and wait while Ferrari gets its act together? Hardly.

Every day that Mercedes manages to do more work makes the mountain Ferrari has to climb in order to defeat them that much higher.

Seriously, you're unlikely to find a bigger Ferrari cheerleader around here than me. However, that doesn't make me blind. Maranello has a history of curious decision-making, especially over the last few years.

We've seen strategic blunders like the inexplicable choice to deliberately tank the power unit in favor of aerodynamics in 2014. We've seen tactical mistakes like the failure to account for Vitaly Petrov at Abu Dhabi in 2010. We've even seen the team get something wrong even when they got it right, like correctly identifying the need for a Coanda-type exhaust solution in 2012, but then employing so-called "Acer ducts" that never stood a chance.

So, yeah. When it's possible that the teams who account for the sport's last 12 World Championships have adopted solutions that Ferrari has apparently dropped, I absolutely think it's fair to ask questions. Nothing is infallible (with apologies to Frank).

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Would be interesting if they shot themselves in foot considering the time they had in wind tunnel to find the best possible solution.

That's sorta where it started for me. I wonder if the abundance of resources enabled by the development arrangement with Haas somehow caused the team to be a bit overly ambitious.

At any rate, like I said, they were just thoughts not to be taken too seriously.

I did pointed out sometime back; it is one thing to find an avenue to exploit, but it is another to actually have some great ideas to utilize that avenue and that Ferrari does not have any.

Mind you, I don't think Ferrari is going to get anywhere close to Merc in speed nor reliability (in relative, F1 terms).

This is grossly unfair. I should be the one who should be talking like this about Ferrari.

Seriously, you're unlikely to find a bigger Ferrari cheerleader around here than me. However, that doesn't make me blind. Maranello has a history of curious decision-making, especially over the last few years.

So, yeah. When it's possible that the teams who account for the sport's last 12 World Championships have adopted solutions that Ferrari has apparently dropped, I absolutely think it's fair to ask questions. Nothing is infallible (with apologies to Frank).

Simply put, after the departure of genius group in 2006, they are back to their old self. Sorry to put it this way... but, they show new grips every time, only to fail to reach a complete orgasm, which others manage to get.

[bhall II]

Somehow I figured you'd show up, blood in the water and all.

I swear this started with thoughts that weren't to be taken too seriously. Scout's honor.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Somehow I figured you'd show up, blood in the water and all.

Thanks for the your encouragement.

I swear this started with thoughts that weren't to be taken too seriously. Scout's honor.

Somewhere, against my wisdom, I was secretly hoping that the Ferrari would churn out a winner that would relieve me of the pain of Mercedes' equality crap and make for a genuine title contention. I would like to believe the glitches of SF16-H are just temporary and that the crowd here can boo me. [-o<