Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Mansell89]

Is it not about damn time they swallowed ego and hired a European consultant who knows the Merc and Ferrari configs, have a look at the Honda engine and work out whether they can genuinely perform with that design or whether they need the same compressor layout as Merc or Ferrari?

What a crazy decision not to have powered Manor too. Precious data.

[GoranF1]

So.

I have understend that Honda is expecting a change or a improvment after race 11 or 12 not before.
Out of my conversation i came to conclusion that under Hasegawa things will change(PU layout?)
Honda does not expect podium this year,or better to say they expect it in 2017.

[Vegetabill]

When Ted asked Boullier if the straight line speed is better than last year, the Boullier pretty much said that he has no idea (with his own words). Wow, surely he would have said "YES" if the data showed some improvements and it's not like that's a rocket science to study the data considering all the variables. No wonder Arai got sacked (please don't start with this "planned changes" cover-up argument).

I think this would be a difficult question for him to answer at this early stage of development. We are all guessing but none of us know what combination they are running of specs of ICE, fuel, MGUK, MGUH, batteries, mapping, wing angle, fuel load.... the list goes on its to big for my tiny mind . I think we all need to calm down a little bit and wait until there is confirmation all the things Honda have worked on over the winter are on the car and see how its performance characteristics are when analysed sensibly.
Another thing I wanted to mention, or start a discussion about maybe (this might be the wrong thread so please move if it's the case) is the forums expectations around the top speed as it seems to be an issue. My point is the MP4-31 is PP's first McLaren with full design control. My observations are that his preference is to have a car that is fast in the corners but slow in a straight line. This was consistently the case in the past, with his car often 15-20 kph slower on the straight than those housing the same engine. So is the general opinion that this speed difference is to be expected, or would this be seen as a Honda failure?

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/02/a ... t-of-2013/

This is an article about the 2013 first test in Jerez. It details a large top speed deficit for the RB9.

Now I'm not saying the MP4-31 will win the championship with 4 races to spare like the RB9, but if the Honda can deliver the right power at the right parts of the track then we could see a much better season. I would also hazard a guess that even if the MP4-31 had the W07 power train we still wouldn't see it blowing past other cars on the straight because it's philosophy is to be fast in other parts of the track.

[bonjon1979]

So.

I have understend that Honda is expecting a change or a improvment after race 11 or 12 not before.
Out of my conversation i came to conclusion that under Hasegawa things will change(PU layout?)
Honda does not expect podium this year,or better to say they expect it in 2017.

Is this a conversation you personally had? With whom, out of interest? CHeers in advance,

[munudeges]

Why is it that Honda here is singled out again and again as the one within the chain that is underperforming? As far as I understand, the size-zero concept is not something that originated from Honda, but from McLaren, because they obviously have certain aero goals they want to achieve.

Given that they are still pursuing that size-zero...

Take a look at the other chassis on the grid. Any size zero advantage they sought to have has completely disappeared. Yes, McLaren need to bear quite a bit of responsibility because they simply haven't helped Honda nor set the right requirements. However, Honda are having reliability problems they just shouldn't be having.

Not supplying Red Bull or another team will turn out to be a terrible mistake. They need help, desperately.

[Andres125sx]

Speed trap from day 3 of testing
1 Nasr, 338.5km/h
2 Hamilton, 337.5km/h
3 Massa, 334.3km/h
4 Hulkenberg, 333.3km/h
5 Haryanto, 333.3km/h
6 Magnussen, 332.3km/h
7 Grosjean, 331.2km/h
8 Raikkonen, 331.2km/h
9 Rosberg, 328.2km/h
10 Sainz, 327.2km/h
11 Kvyat, 322.3km/h
12 Button, 320.4km/h

At first look this looks depressing

But after re-thinking, this is the proof McLaren is sandbagging.

Nobody think they will have a PU similar to Mercedes or Ferrari, but they surely have solved deployment issues, at least partially, so top speed simply cannot be lower than past pre-season, but it is, so this means they´ve not tested top speed or perfomance yet, they´re sandbagging or to be more precise, testing different things before trying any fast lap

In any other season they´d have been forced to do some fast lap before finishingh the test sesion so get any data when they´re pushing, but this one they´ll be back in same track next week, so no need to do any fast lap yet, they first need to test aero parts, reliability, etc. further, then there will be time to try some fast laps, but since the whole pre-season will be here there´s no need to do any fast lap yet.

[ripper]

Everyone is sandbagging: Nasr is using a 2015 car with 2015 power unit. We won't find the real differences until Q3 when Mercedes (and Ferrari?) will use qualy mode.

[proteus]

Speed trap from day 3 of testing
1 Nasr, 338.5km/h
2 Hamilton, 337.5km/h
3 Massa, 334.3km/h
4 Hulkenberg, 333.3km/h
5 Haryanto, 333.3km/h
6 Magnussen, 332.3km/h
7 Grosjean, 331.2km/h
8 Raikkonen, 331.2km/h
9 Rosberg, 328.2km/h
10 Sainz, 327.2km/h
11 Kvyat, 322.3km/h
12 Button, 320.4km/h

At first look this looks depressing

But after re-thinking, this is the proof McLaren is sandbagging.

Nobody think they will have a PU similar to Mercedes or Ferrari, but they surely have solved deployment issues, at least partially, so top speed simply cannot be lower than past pre-season, but it is, so this means they´ve not tested top speed or perfomance yet, they´re sandbagging or to be more precise, testing different things before trying any fast lap

In any other season they´d have been forced to do some fast lap before finishingh the test sesion so get any data when they´re pushing, but this one they´ll be back in same track next week, so no need to do any fast lap yet, they first need to test aero parts, reliability, etc. further, then there will be time to try some fast laps, but since the whole pre-season will be here there´s no need to do any fast lap yet.

Alonso did 326 in this test, if i remember correctly.

[hemichromis]

Speed trap from day 3 of testing
1 Nasr, 338.5km/h
2 Hamilton, 337.5km/h
3 Massa, 334.3km/h
4 Hulkenberg, 333.3km/h
5 Haryanto, 333.3km/h
6 Magnussen, 332.3km/h
7 Grosjean, 331.2km/h
8 Raikkonen, 331.2km/h
9 Rosberg, 328.2km/h
10 Sainz, 327.2km/h
11 Kvyat, 322.3km/h
12 Button, 320.4km/h

At first look this looks depressing

But after re-thinking, this is the proof McLaren is sandbagging.

Nobody think they will have a PU similar to Mercedes or Ferrari, but they surely have solved deployment issues, at least partially, so top speed simply cannot be lower than past pre-season, but it is, so this means they´ve not tested top speed or perfomance yet, they´re sandbagging or to be more precise, testing different things before trying any fast lap

In any other season they´d have been forced to do some fast lap before finishingh the test sesion so get any data when they´re pushing, but this one they´ll be back in same track next week, so no need to do any fast lap yet, they first need to test aero parts, reliability, etc. further, then there will be time to try some fast laps, but since the whole pre-season will be here there´s no need to do any fast lap yet.

Buttons speed is 6 kph slower than last year, either they have made a less powerful engine or they are turning it up slowly to make sure they can get miles in.

I would love to draw conclusions from this testing but we know so little.

[GoranF1]

So.

I have understend that Honda is expecting a change or a improvment after race 11 or 12 not before.
Out of my conversation i came to conclusion that under Hasegawa things will change(PU layout?)
Honda does not expect podium this year,or better to say they expect it in 2017.

Is this a conversation you personally had? With whom, out of interest? CHeers in advance,

for the sake of future update its better not to say.

[PhillipM]

What a crazy decision not to have powered Manor too. Precious data.

That wasn't Honda/Mclaren's decision, from what I heard.
New owner stuck the oar in mid-discussion.

[Alexitation]

So.

I have understend that Honda is expecting a change or a improvment after race 11 or 12 not before.
Out of my conversation i came to conclusion that under Hasegawa things will change(PU layout?)
Honda does not expect podium this year,or better to say they expect it in 2017.

Is this a conversation you personally had? With whom, out of interest? CHeers in advance,

for the sake of future update its better not to say.

So they expect no improvement before the 11th race (Hungary), at the end of July.
I find this really strange. They said they identified the main issues well before the end of the 2015 season. They also said that they would be able to fix them during winter break. I would have imagined that they were working on this issues since they found them (More than 6 months now).
How is it possible that they won't be able to fix the main issues until the middle of this season? What did they work on during winter break?
I understand that designing and building these engines takes time but come on...

[PhillipM]

Things will change, things might change, PU unit might or might not change.

Lot of mights in there for 'inside' info.....
I think a few people should stop stirring, and others need wait until after the next test to start drawing anything like a 'sky is falling' conclusion.

[hemichromis]

So.

I have understend that Honda is expecting a change or a improvment after race 11 or 12 not before.
Out of my conversation i came to conclusion that under Hasegawa things will change(PU layout?)
Honda does not expect podium this year,or better to say they expect it in 2017.

They will not have sufficient tokens to make any dramatic layout change.
It is understood that we will be bringing a slightly different engine next week.
Mr Hasegawa says they will be trying out the engine at a higher performance level in the next test.

[dot235]

"In the second test next week, we are aiming to gauge the full performance of the car."

This applies to all the other teams as well, with the exception of Force India maybe (unless they are genuinely 2nd/3rd fastest team atm)
So don't actually expect the gap to be much smaller.

Renault didn't improve much their EPU from the middle of 2014 till today, but they at least sorted all the major problems at the beginning of 2014 very fast. Honda seems to be making progress even slower.