Aston Martin wants hyper-car to be faster than F1 cars

[bhall II]

But my inference was regarding their mainstay models. 488, California etc...

Designed by Pininfarina.

[bdr529]

Google Andy Palmer and Nissan and see what other "such proclamations" he has made.

No need to google it, all you really need to know is they left it out for garbage pickup

[SR71]

Luxury in the "income tax" sense just means expensive. Luxury in the Aston Martin sense means a car that drives comfortably. And this costs weight. The interior of the Huayra BC is bare. On the other hand a car designed for comfort will have things like electric seats which weigh around 30-40kg each these days...

Regarding the Huayra BC, Pagani claim 500kg of downforce at 250km/h which is of course a useless number. At a more realistic cornering speed of 150km/h that corresponds to only 180kgf of downforce which, while a lot for a road car, it's off by AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE if you want to corner like an F1 car.

I'm extremely skeptical about their claim of 2G cornering too...

Then on the power front, its power to weight is about HALF of what it needs to be.

As mental as this car is, its not even close to what Aston are claiming.

Call me a naysayer if you want but I work in this industry and I can spot marketing smoke from a mile away.

Regarding this point:

It's also quite naive for forum members to suggest a company like AM and RB would make such proclamations without feasibly being able to back them up. They didnt start this project the day of the announcement, please try to understand how press releases work.

Google Andy Palmer and Nissan and see what other "such proclamations" he has made.

Can you provide the source for the exact definition of luxury AP is referring to?

When did AP say 'comfort' specifically, do you have a link?

Do you have a link to this car having electric seats?

[Tim.Wright]

Can you provide the source for the exact definition of luxury AP is referring to?

When did AP say 'comfort' specifically, do you have a link?

Do you have a link to this car having electric seats?

Original article on autoexpress.com:

This is a no excuses halo car – the most luxurious car in its class, but also the quickest and the fastest.

[FoxHound]

But my inference was regarding their mainstay models. 488, California etc...

Designed by Pininfarina.

Famously so. People want Pininfarina designed Fezza's.
So perhaps's not all....but most...

[Gatecrasher]

Where on these cars are there minimal radius front parts?

all the cars that you referred are not really road legal
they do not comply a whole bunch of EC and most of all US safety rules
they can be made road legal only in some countries like UK and then imported in other ones...
they are small craft factories.
That's not what a joint venture red-bull aston martin wants to be...

The atom is road legal at least in WA state, last one I saw was being followed by a trooper with his lights on

[SR71]

Can you provide the source for the exact definition of luxury AP is referring to?

When did AP say 'comfort' specifically, do you have a link?

Do you have a link to this car having electric seats?

Original article on autoexpress.com:

This is a no excuses halo car – the most luxurious car in its class, but also the quickest and the fastest.

Interesting that these words (bold) dont mean anything to you. I thought you worked in the 'industry'?

[Cold Fussion]

Can you provide the source for the exact definition of luxury AP is referring to?

When did AP say 'comfort' specifically, do you have a link?

Do you have a link to this car having electric seats?

Original article on autoexpress.com:

This is a no excuses halo car – the most luxurious car in its class, but also the quickest and the fastest.

Interesting that these words (bold) dont mean anything to you. I thought you worked in the 'industry'?

Are you an Aston Martin shareholder or something? It's difficult to fathom why someone would so vociferously defend marketing claims without some form of vested interest.

[Tim.Wright]

Interesting that these words (bold) dont mean anything to you. I thought you worked in the 'industry'?

I'm not interested in playing semantics over individual words in an obviously overzealous marketing statement.

I gather that the numbers I posted sailed straight over your head? They say everything there is to say really.

[SR71]

Interesting that these words (bold) dont mean anything to you. I thought you worked in the 'industry'?

I'm not interested in playing semantics over individual words in an obviously overzealous marketing statement.

I gather that the numbers I posted sailed straight over your head? They say everything there is to say really.

I understand that the most luxurious of a specific class of cars doesnt mean anything to you. By ignoring it you're able to keep applying Maybach level thinking to a hyper car and keep your argument alive.

I understand you did some 'calculations' and that was a strong contribution to this thread. You should give them some relevancy by backing down on your luxury argument.

[FoxHound]

I understand that the most luxurious of a specific class of cars doesnt mean anything to you. By ignoring it you're able to keep applying Maybach level thinking to a hyper car and keep your argument alive.

I understand you did some 'calculations' and that was a strong contribution to this thread. You should give them some relevancy by backing down on your luxury argument.

What Andy Palmer described was a de facto Bugatti Veyron.
VW lose 6 million dollars per car, all down to the fact that developing a 250mph luxury sports car is stupid expensive.

There is also little to no trickle down tech as no other VW AG group car comes close to replicating these numbers or needs of requirement.

Now you suggest it's not a bad idea for a struggling company like Aston to take this behemoth task by the horns.

Why?

[djos]

I do think there is some hyperbole here, however if Adrian uses all the tricks in his aero book including full active systems for aero and suspension coupled with a full track mode for maximum performance, surely these targets are possible?

E.g. Aero which goes to low drag on the straights and adjusts downforce depending on cornering speeds, steering angles, brake force etc all in concert with the active suspension.

Combine this with an extremely light small and powerful turbo engine combined with an 8 speed gearbox or better and I would think you would have high top speed combined with insane cornering speeds.

You'd prolly need to restrict track mode to actual circuits (via GPS) and when racing slicks are installed to keep it safe but I can't see how with every F1 trick in the book used (especially those that have been banned), this isn't possible.

[djos]

What Andy Palmer described was a de facto Bugatti Veyron.
VW lose 6 million dollars per car, all down to the fact that developing a 250mph luxury sports car is stupid expensive.

There is also little to no trickle down tech as no other VW AG group car comes close to replicating these numbers or needs of requirement.

Now you suggest it's not a bad idea for a struggling company like Aston to take this behemoth task by the horns.

Why?

The Veyron is a bit special tho, it needs insane horsepower due to its inherently poor aerodynamic profile and resulting high drag.

[FoxHound]

The Veyron is a bit special tho, it needs insane horsepower due to its inherently poor aerodynamic profile and resulting high drag.

The proposed Aston Martin-RB project has very similar targets to the Veyron. Only with added DF.
Remember the spiel...."Superior in acceleration, top speed and circuit performance to any road car ever made, and likely to be superior to all but the most focused race cars, but with added luxury."

With this in mind you have to (basic)factor in the following:
Acceleration
Power, especially torque.
Tyres.
High speed stability.
Mass.

We know the car will be a petrol/electric Hybrid. Meaning it will gain Kg's over non-hybrid supercars.
The new Honda NSX and Porsche 918 are examples of cars gaining weight using hybrid tech, as are F1 cars.

Arriving at the acceleration targets, it will have to be 4 wheel drive. Adding mass.
A complete guesstimate from myself would have this car at over 1550Kg's(3400lb's) all day long.
Porsche tried and tried to cut as much mass as possible for their 918, still came in at 1640Kg's. And that's with far less testing brief than the AM-RB 001.

Then you get to the power. You will likely need a large displacement turbo engine with huge cooling requirements. Torque will be a huge requirement, as it's low down power that stops the engine from losing momentum at high speed. The Veyron is at 800nm per ton... The AM will need to better this IMO. Meaning 2 things. Added mass and drag.
You can't sit at 250mph+ without that engine sucking in copious amounts of air.

Now we are at aerodynamics. The only way this car will be able to utilise massive levels of aero DF, as the brief suggests, if it has active aero. Even then it will need to be so finely tuned so that at top speed it gain achieve stability without upsetting the balance of the car at 250mph+. At these sorts of speeds anything "active" will need to be benign, or risk flinging the car into the nearest orbiting planetary body.

So it will need to be 2 cars in one. Active aero under a certain speed, and de-activated high speed aero profile over a certain speed. That reeks Jekyll and Hyde characteristics.
If not, and they retain the active aero, this car will need power beyond stupid. And real time aero computation on a heavenly level.

Now we arrive at what makes this all possible. Tyres.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.... Anything weighing 1.5 tons with well over a 1000bhp, and with huge aero loads will need rubber that probably does not exist yet. Not as we know it.
This is where it all falls flat for me. Forget the previous points for a moment, on tyres alone this project appears on rocky ground to say the least.

And then the costs of such development which has been covered already.

With levels of engineering required that would make the designers of such alacritous machinery as the SR71-A, MIG-31 Foxhound and to a lesser extent Wright brothers baulk, I'm sceptical.

[DiogoBrand]

Things which I think will be absolutely necessary to even start thinking about this:
-Active suspension
-Active Aero
-Some "clever interpretation" of road safety rules
-Extremely lightweight exotic materials
-A performance oriented track mode
-Track-only slick tyres
-Newey's aero knowledge
-Crazy power
-Maybe fans, even though I find it unlikely
The list goes on, but those are the things I can think of right now.

So, do I believe they'll make a road car that goes round a circuit faster than a Formula One car?
Absolutely not. But I'd like to see them try.
Do I think they will actually try?
Absolutely not. This is most likely Red Bull crying because they want Formula One to change the rules and maybe give them a chance to be competitive again.