2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[henry]

They can harvest energy via the MGU-h to make up the shortfall.

Ideally if they could harvest enough energy from the mgu-h then they could keep the mgu-k running at max output for the whole lap. Except for the braking zones.

They would also not want to drive with maximum MGU-K output in part throttle zones. In fact they might want to run it as a brake there to charge the ES directly, and indirectly from the MGU-H which will get more power because the ICE is working harder.

The ability to run the MGU-K at max output for a whole lap will be track dependant. Monaco maybe, Spa almost certainly not. Even if they could they might choose not to but, rather, fuel lighter. The only measure of performance the teams care about is lap time. IMHO only those with the simulators to measure it can know what the ideal combination of power application and storage is at any particular track, and weather condition.

[Juzh]

Omnicorse lay out the ERS recovery for each GP in their preview and did so also in 2015.

http://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/gp-bah ... 82801/?s=1

Use Google translate.

Thank you very much for this.

Interestingly only 868 KJ can be recovered via MGU-K in a single lap of bahrain and a whopping 3200 via MGU-H.
This total would equal ~34.5s of ERS deployment at maximum permitted rate.

[henry]

If all of the MGU-H energy of 3200 kJ comes when the car is not traction limited running at WOT, around 65 seconds, this gives an MGU-H power of 50 kW. They probably get some at part throttle so the peak power is probably a little lower than this.

[NL_Fer]

So guys, what's the opinion about the engines using HCCI? It is a rumour that keeps turning up, but imo is a total nonsense.

I believe HCCI has a slow burn rate, to slow to run at 10000rpm
HCCI is limited in power, so unusable in WOT, which is 70% of an f1 average lap
Even using it in slow corner exits, would just be usable for a few second, saving 1kg a race?

So i don't think HCCI is the technology used at the moment. It is great for a consumer car combining efficiency and low NOx emissions, but it has no use in f1.

[Tommy Cookers]

well I'm a 'HCCI in F1' sceptic
in the Ferrari engine thread on the 7th I said that the mystery HCCI is (if it exists) really some mode of CI

apart from the other reasons, DI cannot be regarded as giving a homogeneous charge
and DI inherently limits the extent of detonation because the mixture gets ever-less energetic as combustion proceeds

[NL_Fer]

Right.

I believe some prechamber system like Mahle's Jet ignition would be more logical for f1. It's all about increasing burn speed of an ultralean mixture.

There found it.

MAHLE Jet Ignition® is a lean burn combustion process, developed by our engineering service provider MAHLE Powertrain for the Formula 1. With substantially greater efficiency, it primarily delivers higher performance in motorsport. This is achieved by means of a special surface ignition of the fuel-air mixture. In series vehicles, this technology can be used to achieve markedly lower fuel consumption. With this combustion process, MAHLE sees the potential to reach efficiency levels in gasoline engines that are currently only achievable with diesel engines. MAHLE Jet Ignition® thus sets new benchmarks f

http://www.us.mahle.com/mahle_north_ame ... y-life.jsp

[Blackout]

Does the ignition in the prechamber need a high injection pressure? AFAIK no. And pre-chambers come from the diesel world, right?
Taffin lately said: "We don’t hit the 500bar fuel pressure limit at the moment. I guess it’s going to be more if you have multiple injections and trick things like that, but so far we are not on that limit. We are already in that direction and we are getting closer and closer to a diesel engine in that respect."

[Pierce89]

well I'm a 'HCCI in F1' sceptic
in the Ferrari engine thread on the 7th I said that the mystery HCCI is (if it exists) really some mode of CI

apart from the other reasons, DI cannot be regarded as giving a homogeneous charge
and DI inherently limits the extent of detonation because the mixture gets ever-less energetic as combustion proceeds

I agree, as the pre-chamber concept is the total opposite and as you said DI is better for heterogeneous charge concept like the "pre- chamber" idea.

[ringo]

Pre chamber ignition is where it's at right now. HCCI doesn't seem to be for high performance applications.

MAHLE Jet Ignition® enables homogeneous ultra-lean combustion in modern gasoline engines.
The MAHLE Jet Ignition® system is a new combustion technology which replaces the standard spark plug in SI engines with a jet ignition chamber assembly. MAHLE Jet Ignition® facilitates the implementation of ultra lean-burn operation in gasoline engines, improving their efficiency and reducing the formation of pollutants such as nitrogen oxide and particulates.
Inside the jet igniter assembly is a small ignition chamber with a direct injector (DI) that provides a small amount of auxiliary fuel (<5% of the total system fuel) and a spark plug to ignite that charge. The ignition chamber is connected to the main chamber by a number of orifices which allow jets of partially combusted products to ignite the main charge. The smaller orifice size causes turbulence in the hot gas jets which then penetrate deeper into the main combustion chamber and cause an evenly distributed ignition effect. The main chamber is fuelled through a conventional port or direct-injection injector. With 4-8 ignition jets, depending on the application, the main charge is extensively ignited and a faster burn-through and pressure build-up is generated. Furthermore, this process allows increased compression ratios (a 4 point increase in some applications) combined with lower combustion temperatures and reduced throttling / pumping losses to achieve peak indicated thermal efficiencies up to 45%.
The MAHLE Jet Ignition® system’s combustion is much quicker than with standard spark ignition, enabling the engine to operate at optimum spark timing as the knock limit is extended significantly. In car engines, high fuel savings are achieved by the higher, almost diesel-like efficiency. Engine tests show specific consumption below 200g / kWh and significant related reductions in CO2 emissions. In addition to providing efficiency and fuel consumption advantages, MAHLE Jet Ignition® also achieves reductions in engine-out NOx emissions by more than 99 per cent in the ultra-lean area. Hydrocarbon (HC) emissions are maintained at levels equivalent to standard spark ignition operation. MAHLE Jet Ignition® (with a PFI main chamber) generates slightly elevated particulates compared to a PFI engine but these are significantly reduced versus a DI engine.
MAHLE Jet Ignition® is an exciting new combustion system that provides great potential for further CO2 emissions reduction in latest generation gasoline engines.

http://www.mahle-powertrain.com/en/mahl ... -ignition/

http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015 ... 2015_o.pdf

[jure]

Pre chamber ignition is where it's at right now. HCCI doesn't seem to be for high performance applications....

This concept doesn't seem overly complicated, especially given how fast manufacturers are implementing it in their f1 engines. Why don't we have this technology already in our everyday cars? Does it require special fuel or are such engines less reliable/durable,..something else?

[NL_Fer]

Because we don't really need it in ir daily driver. The daily driver runs at 10-25% of it's maximum power most of the time. Turbo and statified injection is efficient enought for that light loads and in future hcci will probably be used during crusing.

Jet ignition is good for running lean at high load, like a formula one engine or the big stationairy engines, where the technology comes from.

Check out this cool video of an MAN stationary Natural Gas fueled engine, 20cilinders 10600kW, using their own pre-chamber technology.

[gruntguru]

Pre chamber ignition is where it's at right now. HCCI doesn't seem to be for high performance applications....

This concept doesn't seem overly complicated, especially given how fast manufacturers are implementing it in their f1 engines. Why don't we have this technology already in our everyday cars? Does it require special fuel or are such engines less reliable/durable,..something else?

Main reason is NOx emissions. 3 way cat cannot reduce NOx if lambda >1 (lean). Apart from this, jet ignition with homogeneous lean would appreciably improve economy. The other problem is power falls as mixture is leaned so the maker would have to provide a larger engine or forced induction.

[jure]

Main reason is NOx emissions. 3 way cat cannot reduce NOx if lambda >1 (lean). Apart from this, jet ignition with homogeneous lean would appreciably improve economy. The other problem is power falls as mixture is leaned so the maker would have to provide a larger engine or forced induction.

They can use scr to cure NOx problems.
I don't quite understand the other problem. What power falls - under partial load? Couldn't such an engine just swicth between different modes? Under partial load it could operate just like other engines today do - direct injection and no prechamber.

Because we don't really need it in ir daily driver. The daily driver runs at 10-25% of it's maximum power most of the time. Turbo and statified injection is efficient enought for that light loads and in future hcci will probably be used during crusing.

The largest amount of fuel is consumed right in that 10-25% of time (acceleration and highway - air resistance) . In those situations the engine is not in partial load mode - i think - might be wrong?

[NL_Fer]

My car needs approx 30-40 bhp to run on the hiway, i assume. Max power is 110 bhp. I almost never floor it actually.

[Tommy Cookers]

Because we don't really need it in ir daily driver. The daily driver runs at 10-25% of it's maximum power most of the time. Turbo and statified injection is efficient enought for that light loads and in future hcci will probably be used during crusing.
Jet ignition is good for running lean at high load, like a formula one engine or the big stationairy engines, where the technology comes from.

jet ignition seems good for running lean at any load

with JI etc natural gas can be run so lean/cool there's no NOx, a priceless benefit to power generation and EU marine applications
there's various thermodynamic benefits and other disbenefits
the reason for JI with gas is otherwise (with stratified charge DI) you'd need to inject gas in great volume

running lean at low loads reduces or eliminates throttling & its mechanical losses and thermodynamic disbenefit from partial charge
cars always ran lean (except at max power) until mandatory NOx catalysis compelled running 4% rich continuously or almost so
JI and stratified charge DI are two technologies for running lean, so improving economy at low loads ie in our road car use
(btw - at which car dealership can we buy a stratified charge gasoline car ?)
and a big NOx cut is very valuable
JI seems easier for car makers to integrate into their engine design and production ?

running lean at low loads complements cylinder cutting, but can for road use also usefully replace it ?
and it complements brakes off MGU-K generation