Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[drunkf1fan]

That is the only key word from everything you wrote. "implement"

The consultant team can only design the pre-chamber,injector,piston crown and TC but it is up to the HRD team to implement it correctly and in a fast timeframe.

Yes the consultant team can also design something that doesn't work, something you seem to ignore as a possibility. Read what I said, the team making the 2015 and 2016 engine didn't think they designed a stinker, they thought they'd designed a killer engine right up till they realised it wasn't very good. Just because a team came up with some designs doesn't mean those designs are good. Both designs AND implementation can be right or wrong, and I'm not saying they are either one specifically but you're talking like many did last year. Many people said they knew what was wrong and exactly how to fix it, except that clearly hasn't been true.

If everyone could make the perfect design that was always right there would be no bad engines, no bad products anywhere. Life isn't like that, they've made another new design and they hope it is the right one but it's entirely ridiculous to say they've cracked it because the same statements were made last year and they were wrong.

[GoranF1]

@sasha

Here is a prove that Honda has infact hired European help.



and in other news Jenson Button says 2016 is lost already...

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/04/28/318603/

[NL_Fer]

But what still is not clear to me. Did Honda knew, in 2015 already, that the compressor in the V would not be enough ro catch up with Mercedes?

And if they knew, why did they continue to persuit then bigger compressor in the V concept for 2016?

I mean they could have known (and Mclaren too) that Ferrari tried the compromised smaller engine and it didn't work. Now they are two years behind.

[hurril]

But what still is not clear to me. Did Honda knew, in 2015 already, that the compressor in the V would not be enough ro catch up with Mercedes?

And if they knew, why did they continue to persuit then bigger compressor in the V concept for 2016?

I mean they could have known (and Mclaren too) that Ferrari tried the compromised smaller engine and it didn't work. Now they are two years behind.

Or why not get a compressor 50% larger than the Mercedes one. A guaranteed 50% extra horse power with that logic, no?

[NL_Fer]

But what still is not clear to me. Did Honda knew, in 2015 already, that the compressor in the V would not be enough ro catch up with Mercedes?

And if they knew, why did they continue to persuit then bigger compressor in the V concept for 2016?

I mean they could have known (and Mclaren too) that Ferrari tried the compromised smaller engine and it didn't work. Now they are two years behind.

Or why not get a compressor 50% larger than the Mercedes one. A guaranteed 50% extra horse power with that logic, no?

If you read the interviews and quotes, even Honda is hinting that the compressor in the V is not working.

[hurril]

But what still is not clear to me. Did Honda knew, in 2015 already, that the compressor in the V would not be enough ro catch up with Mercedes?

And if they knew, why did they continue to persuit then bigger compressor in the V concept for 2016?

I mean they could have known (and Mclaren too) that Ferrari tried the compromised smaller engine and it didn't work. Now they are two years behind.

Or why not get a compressor 50% larger than the Mercedes one. A guaranteed 50% extra horse power with that logic, no?

If you read the interviews and quotes, even Honda is hinting that the compressor in the V is not working.

Right but question is if that was apparent the way some of you make it out to be.

[ME4ME]

At the end of 2014 when they tested the first Honda PU at Abu Dhabi, Mclaren & Honda argued that they had to do something different to the competition in order to win. It seems that now they have basically given up on that. The problem is, they have lost 2 years in the process. More worryingly, why didn't they identify earlier that their overall architecture wasn't working?

If they go for a Mercedes style PU, and introduce it in 2017, I very much doubt it will be as refined as the Mercedes at that stage. Thus it will take until 2018 for them to match Mercedes, if they ever will. That doesn't mean they won't improve and close up to the Mercedes team, but I doubt they will beat them with slightly worse machinery. Alonso & Button must be gutted.

[PlatinumZealot]

The location of the compressor is not the problem. Their compressor can get as big as Mercedes just with a higher CoG. But if you are talking power terms the big difference is the combustion. Remember in 2015 Renault had a bigger turbo than Ferrari but they were nowhere close in power output. For Honda to win they have to employ Jet Ignition and do it quickly!

[Sasha]

You guys do not understand the engine formula now just like Honda the past two years,Renault the past three years and Ferrari one year.Only MB got it right from day one.

It has nothing to do with max power or split-turbo layout.

It is all about efficiency. Who can get the most energy from every gram of fuel.

And it is funny that they are all using improved 70's Honda tech to do so. CVCC with better injectors and piston crowns.

[Far]

I read Ferrari want to make more changes to the engine this year and will spend more tokens and will surpass the token they can spend so they will get some penalties like honda last year in grid position or is a more hard penalti. And if ferrari can why honda Can't overspend token too.

[3jawchuck]

I read Ferrari want to make more changes to the engine this year and will spend more tokens and will surpass the token they can spend so they will get some penalties like honda last year in grid position or is a more hard penalti. And if ferrari can why honda Can't overspend token too.

I can't be sure, but if the token count is broken my guess is that the engine won't be homologated and it won't be legal to run. If they ran it then it would mean exclusion from the event at the very least and probably even more strict penalties.

[NL_Fer]

The location of the compressor is not the problem. Their compressor can get as big as Mercedes just with a higher CoG. But if you are talking power terms the big difference is the combustion. Remember in 2015 Renault had a bigger turbo than Ferrari but they were nowhere close in power output. For Honda to win they have to employ Jet Ignition and do it quickly!

Yes combustion is the most important efficiency factor. But extracting that energy from the exhaust gasses is almost as important and you need a good turbo/mgu-h to harvest it. Even more if they introduce jet ignition.

Even now, Mercedes claims it is charging ES with MGU-K deploying at the same time and they can deploy for a full lap. Honda has a depleted ES at the end of long straight, which is better than last year, but still not at Mercedes level.

[Andres125sx]

And people keep ignoring current formula does not allow manufacturers to develop their PUs freely, some of you keep critizicing Honda because they didn´t make a winner PU in 2016 after 2015 disaster.

How can a manufacturer change his PU so dramatically when the base PU (2015) is a disaster and they´re VERY limited about what they can modify because of the token system?


Some of you even said 2016 Honda PU is very similar to 2015 PU At first, it is very relibale, wich wasn´t past season. Then it is a lot more powerful, not in the traditional way but it can deploy the electrical power for longer, as it is easily visible watching speed traps wich are much much better than in 2015, so it improved the two basic weak points from past season, deployment and reliability.

If you did expect them to solve peak power too, I´m afraid you were way too optimistic. Current token system does not allow such a big modifications. They solved more than enough considering it is 2016 mkI PU

[f1rules]

with development free, there is no more excuses, if they dont deliver next year, they will look complete losers, more so, than now where they can to some extent hide behind the token system, but now they need throw gazillions on developing the current pu and a complete new one for next year

[Redragon]

they have developed their engine in two years faster and better than Renault in their first two years and they are still been critized