2016 Red Bull Racing team - TAG Heuer

[SR71]

Max is fast, really fast but he hasnt been so consistent and he is not enough mature. He is very good but the hype around him could ruin his career. His ego is enough big to be feeded.

How hasn't he been consistent? Both TR drivers have been very consistent. The only inconsistencies I can think of with Max are Hungary and UK.

Yes Verstappen in ' 16 was rather consistent his starts are consistently bad and overall he's been consistently mediocre . OK races from memory, i'm not checking but you can and correct it:
'14 - Bahrain - awful pace AFAIR,
- Monaco - below the scale, both qualifying and the race
- Silverstone - below the scale, funny thing professional autosport journalist for qualifying 0,4 and 5 places behind a team mate and a crashing on his own on the first lap gave Verstappen a note 6/10 , that's why I remember. If that's not a sponsored promotion I don't know what is.
- Spa - just watch overtakes on Bottas (got away without a penalty) and awful attempt at Raikkonen, I remember this because F1 expert Brundle immediately blamed it on some other car that wasn't involved (Bottas?) and was just in front
- Singapore - TO circus,
- Hungary - overall
- Abu Dhabi - just bad, locking up destroying tyres and then a penalty
I won't include losing to slower cars - debatable but it did happen IMO several times.

'15 - Australia - good race until the pistop - comedy of errors and childish behaviour afterwards, that's handling of pressure for you, the thing Kvyat is not capable of according to Marko
- China - debatable but I'd say under-performing on every level despite finishing in front of Sainz. Toro Rosso claimed they should have qualified higher + start is not debatable
- Bahrain - start, I'd say pace and qualifying too but I won't argue about it - not exact science
- Russia - start, watch replays for some criminal and lucky driving

Overall:
- inconclusive one lap pace compared to an unknown (Saizn jr), so no saying "fast really fast" is not enough
- handling pressure and wasting best opportunities (Monaco, Hungary etc.)
- consistency and putting full race together (Q, start, pace, racecraft), including record number of penalty points in '15
- race pace including tyre management - I didn't follow that closely but there were examples of some problems even this season (Russia?), so again saying "fast really fast" is not enough

Interesting analysis.

Unfortunately Red Bull have terabytes of data on Max that proves your analysis to be a surface level fan based opinion.

They made their decision with untold terabytes more information than you or I have available. I suspect the one lap pace difference between Sainz and Max is well known within Toro Rosso (thus Red Bull) for instance.

[Andres125sx]

Max verstappen is just the character F1 needs, a fast young spoiled big mouth rich kid with an evil dad.

You got me here

[Andres125sx]

Being polite over the radio has never won nor lost someone a race. Maturity is just an argument old people use to feel significant and other parrot because they don't realise it means nothing.

Maybe you´re not 20, but you talk like one of them

Maturity is an argument old people use because they have lived enough to know it´s important. Nobody enjoy working with a immature person, immaturity causes absurd discusions wich could be easily avoided with a simple conversation, bad team atmosphere, company mates being pissed off with arrogance (one of the most characteristic qualities of immature people who think they´re the best at any field), and many other problems when you need to work into a team. It doesn´t matter if it´s a F1 team or any other team of any company.

That argument of "if he´s fast enough his personailty does not matter" is too basic. If he´s the new Senna then yes, or maybe, but if he´s like 99% of top drivers, then this sort of things can make the balance go to a different side when a team need to decide. Things rarely are black or white, so everything counts

[Sonador]

I think on Quali speed, you see Verstappen build up to it, and makes setup mistakes, where Sainz is instant quick an doesn't improve very much (because he has it often correct at the first go).
On raw one lap pace i think Sainz is the quicker one, but on race pace I think Verstappen is the faster one compared to Sainz.

It will be interessting to see how that translates to Ricciardo, who is insanely fast on both race pace and one lap pace.
He used to be more about one lap pace (compared to Vergne) but since then he got things sorted on the race pace front.

Will the RB12 suit Verstappens driving style?

[GrayGreat]

Will the RB12 suit Verstappens driving style?

Some people are going to use this excuse if Verstappen gets beaten by Ricciardo, which is quite likely to happen (because it's a general opinion that Ricciardo is on top level), I am not sure.

Anyway, one thing crossed my mind. What if Verstappen gets beaten by Ricciardo, I mean how much of a hit would Verstappen take from this? One can say that he will get beaten by a great driver so he would not feel much but just try and put yourself in Max's shoes. You get beaten by your teammate more often than not, regardless of how good your teammate is, for sure you will not feel good or even OK about it. When Max beats Sainz it's suppose to give him a morale boost but now if he starts getting beaten every(or almost) weekend, can this have a negative effect on him? Maybe it's too early to put him alongside Ricciardo? Any thoughts on this?

[bill shoe]

Good discussion. My armchair predictions--

1. The driver switch will be good for Red Bull in general because until now they had a feel for how each pair of drivers compared, but not how all four drivers compared. By switching Verstappen and Kvyat they will directly get a good comparison and ranking of all 4 drivers. Nice.

2. Ricciardo will generally beat Verstappen, certainly in 2016. This will be the first real challenge to Verstappen. His attitude and approach will determine if he can get better or merely frustrated. A good attitude doesn't mean he will necessarily be positive and happy, rather that he will focus his energy in a constructive way. Sort of like a brooding Senna or Schumacher.

3. Remainder of 2016 is high-stakes poker for Ricciardo. If he outdrives Max like I predict then his future contracts will be huge (and will probably be at Red Bull). If he is slower, or even roughly equal, then his stock will decline and he will find it difficult to get any paying drive. I think everyone is kind of curious about Ricciardo (was 2014 a fluke?) and this will answer the questions.

4. If RB didn't do this shakeup then the 2016 season would be much less interesting.

[ME4ME]

Explaining the switch, Marko told Motorsport-Total.com: "It was primarily a measure to take away the pressure off Daniil.

"This year he has not been near the same performance as last year.

"He has been on average three to five tenths [of a second per lap] slower than [team-mate Daniel] Ricciardo. Last year he was at eye level.

People should be very realistic about this. Ricciardo is on top of his game. In my oppinion he is second to none, equal to ROS, HAM and VET in his performances. If Verstappen can be within the margin of 0 to 0.4 of a second off Ricciardo the first couple of races, that would be quite decent already. What he then needs to show is consistent improvement and start matching his team mate before the summer brake.

[Henk]

Will the RB12 suit Verstappens driving style?

Some people are going to use this excuse if Verstappen gets beaten by Ricciardo, which is quite likely to happen (because it's a general opinion that Ricciardo is on top level), I am not sure.

I'm a bit worried about that Red Bull. Two drivers that should be able to match Ricciardo occasionally or regularly had huge problems with the car. The problems Vettel had may be sorted by now though.

[lio007]

What about the WCC points? DK has 21 and MV as 13.

Do RBR's WCC-points drop from 57 to 49?

[djos]

What about the WCC points? DK has 21 and MV as 13.

Do RBR's WCC-points drop from 57 to 49?

No, WCC points don't follow the driver.

[lio007]

Ah, I assumed they'll keep the points but wasn't sure. Thanks for confirmation djos!!

[Stalker1]

People should be very realistic about this. Ricciardo is on top of his game. In my oppinion he is second to none, equal to ROS, HAM and VET in his performances. If Verstappen can be within the margin of 0 to 0.4 of a second off Ricciardo the first couple of races, that would be quite decent already. What he then needs to show is consistent improvement and start matching his team mate before the summer brake.

I agree. Ricciardo is among the best out there and a perfect reference point for Verstappen with a same team and same car. Beside that, Red Bull need all the advertisement they can get and all the help they can find aganist Williams.

[iotar__]

I agree. Ricciardo is among the best out there and a perfect reference point for Verstappen with a same team and same car. Beside that, Red Bull need all the advertisement they can get and all the help they can find aganist Williams.

Ricciardo is nowhere neat top as '15 showed, most notably: Austria, Japan, Spa, USA, GB and of course Hungary. His starts were bad and he needed to rely on team orders several times, caused many collisions, wasted many chances and was lucky to get away without penalties. His claim to top driver status is based on '14 - competitive no man's land, couple of spotlight wins which if you objectively dissect were far from perfect races. His qualifying is very good but there was a sequence of races last season when Kvyat was quicker (example of pressure = no time set in GB Q).

About his team mate: they're giving him another rookie season, less competition and a better car. Verstappen on Sainz in Australia was as bad as Kvyat - Vettel Russia, the fact that Sainz stayed in the race and so did he should not matter, pure lack but driving remains the same. Differences: team mate, more costly for Toro Rosso, not a traffic start.

In connection with Abu Dhabi '15 where they lost sixth place to slower Lotus it was a sequence of awful driving. Makes you wonder why they didn't fire/promote him after that. Wait a minute... Funny thing none of F1's journalist was shouting: "incompetent Verstappen and Sainz lost Toro Rosso certain sixth place".

[NL_Fer]

Riciardo never lost form in 2015. It was just the Renault PU losing more ground on Mercedes and Ferrari. And yes Kvyat was fast, as he as alsway been,,even in 2014. But he lacks consistency and on a few occasions didn't manage his race properly.

[Sonador]

Verstappen on Sainz in Australia was as bad as Kvyat - Vettel Russia, the fact that Sainz stayed in the race and so did he should not matter, pure lack but driving remains the same. Differences: team mate, more costly for Toro Rosso, not a traffic start.

Sainz was clever to do the undercut to Verstappen, but failed to make an overtake on Palmer wich was crucial to recover.
The race was lost because of poor strategie after the red flag, and poor managment!
Not because of Verstappen or Sainz.

Verstappen was angry at the team, and i think that his age was showing in that fight.
But to call it as worse as the Kvyat - Vettel accident is for me a bit to far fetched ....

Verstappen was way faster than Sainz was in the race, he just was caught out by the red flag just as the team was.

Riciardo never lost form in 2015. It was just the Renault PU losing more ground on Mercedes and Ferrari. And yes Kvyat was fast, as he as alsway been,,even in 2014. But he lacks consistency and on a few occasions didn't manage his race properly.

The first half of the season was a bit up and down, after a chassis change you could see he was more stable.
He was very unlucky with some DNF's. I think this year he is on 2014 level straight away, and i think Verstappen has a LOT to learn. I personelly think it is to early or him to make such a move.