2016 Red Bull Racing team - TAG Heuer

[Webber2011]

The deal was done in China (supposedly) after a mega blow up between Tost and MV's side of the garage. Marko had already laid the groundwork prior to the Russian GP.

If true one could suspect kvyat intentionally made that mistake.

You really think if the guy knew he was being demoted, he would then "intentionally" do something that could end his career all together ? ? ?
Sorry.............that's just way too bizzare for me to consider.

Agree besides after Bianchi I don't think any driver would be crazy enough to crash on purpose.

I think a more plausible story is that Kyviat knowing about his position in the team figured out that the only way of preventing it was to score a podium or at least outdrive Ricciardio. Red Bull would face a serious backlash if they replaced him after a good result in front of his home crowd and probably would have decided against it.

So he had no option other than to go for broke. It would not surprise me if both incidences occurred because Kyviat was looking at Ricciardo instead of paying attention to that red thing in front of his own front wing.

I see it that way as well.
Ricciardo was on the outside of Seb, and we've all seen a Driver follow the guy making a pass to take advantage.
That's what he was trying to do I think, get past Daniel.
Daniil just got his braking wrong and the rest is history.

[OneAlex]

The way Max has been overhyped leaves us in danger of having F1s biggest spoilt brat in history. Personally hope Ricciardo proves who the real deal is but time will tell.

Given all the rumours and talk of the fighting between Max and Carlos at Toro Rosso and Jos pushing for an RB seat, it seems effectively rewarding Max with the Red Bull drive could encourage any "spoilt brat" behaviour he may already have.

The dynamic between Daniel and Max will be something to watch out for over the rest of the season I think. Will Max respect Daniel more? Or will he continue to play Kevin the Teenager? (And if he does, will Red Bull tolerate it as much as they did Toro Rosso?)

[zeph]

Given all the rumours and talk of the fighting between Max and Carlos at Toro Rosso and Jos pushing for an RB seat, it seems effectively rewarding Max with the Red Bull drive could encourage any "spoilt brat" behaviour he may already have.

Yup, it sure seems that way. The Verstappens created a stink at STR and got a RBR seat as a reward. That's the way of the world.
The Hamiltons did something similar at McLaren and were rewarded with the exit of Alonso and inviolate no.1 status.

[basti313]

The way Max has been overhyped leaves us in danger of having F1s biggest spoilt brat in history. Personally hope Ricciardo proves who the real deal is but time will tell.

Given all the rumours and talk of the fighting between Max and Carlos at Toro Rosso and Jos pushing for an RB seat, it seems effectively rewarding Max with the Red Bull drive could encourage any "spoilt brat" behaviour he may already have.

The dynamic between Daniel and Max will be something to watch out for over the rest of the season I think. Will Max respect Daniel more? Or will he continue to play Kevin the Teenager? (And if he does, will Red Bull tolerate it as much as they did Toro Rosso?)

This will all be defined by the pace Max can go. If he can not keep up with the pace of Daniel, this will heal some bad behavior. But if they meet on the track too often, this will be nightmare for RB and fun to watch =D>

[SR71]

You really think if the guy knew he was being demoted, he would then "intentionally" do something that could end his career all together ? ? ?
Sorry.............that's just way too bizzare for me to consider.

Agree besides after Bianchi I don't think any driver would be crazy enough to crash on purpose.

I think a more plausible story is that Kyviat knowing about his position in the team figured out that the only way of preventing it was to score a podium or at least outdrive Ricciardio. Red Bull would face a serious backlash if they replaced him after a good result in front of his home crowd and probably would have decided against it.

So he had no option other than to go for broke. It would not surprise me if both incidences occurred because Kyviat was looking at Ricciardo instead of paying attention to that red thing in front of his own front wing.

I see it that way as well.
Ricciardo was on the outside of Seb, and we've all seen a Driver follow the guy making a pass to take advantage.
That's what he was trying to do I think, get past Daniel.
Daniil just got his braking wrong and the rest is history.

I didn't say he did it on purpose but F1 racers are notorious spoiled brats as many have pointed out on this thread. If you really feel that way then commit to a stance.

This demotion is essentially the end of DKs career for the moment unless he does something like put that TR on the podium. He would have known his RB drive was over before the lights turned off in Russia.

I think he knew it was his last chance and he over did it, seems pretty simple but he wasn't qualified to be in that car in the first place if that's how he handles pressure like that.

PS- gotta love how you guys missed the important part of my post - MV to RB deal was done in China, let that sink in.

[ringo]

Given all the rumours and talk of the fighting between Max and Carlos at Toro Rosso and Jos pushing for an RB seat, it seems effectively rewarding Max with the Red Bull drive could encourage any "spoilt brat" behaviour he may already have.

Yup, it sure seems that way. The Verstappens created a stink at STR and got a RBR seat as a reward. That's the way of the world.
The Hamiltons did something similar at McLaren and were rewarded with the exit of Alonso and inviolate no.1 status.

What is this about? lol
I must have missed it in 2007.

[Manoah2u]

with all do respect, and for a moment completely putting Verstappen totally aside, but

really, what is so special about Daniil Kvyat?
Seriously, i haven't seen the slightest thing of him from his Toro Rosso days to the RedBull days that is even slightly
impressive or why one should bother about him anymore than Haryanto, Ericsson, Liuzzi (for crying out loud), Scott Speed (another of those failures), Bourdais, Buemi, Alguersuari or Vergne? To be honest, i rank Vergne, Alguersuari and Buemi better than Kvyat.

I could give a rat's *ss about kvyat's sacking. The only fuzz imho about it is that it's Max that's taking his seat. If Max never was there at Toro Rosso, and it would have been Sainz and Gasly @ Toro Rosso, and Kvyat sacked because he simply can't 'take it', would there still be such a big fuzz about it?

Knowing Helmut Marko's history on easy come, easy go F1 driver 'usage', i think there's way too much blame or fingers pointed towards Verstappen.Really, Kvyat was to show his potential through his driving capabilites, and quite frankly, hasn't been up to it. Yes he made a podium, but without being too unforgiving, i rather wonder whether any 'semi-experienced' f1 driver wouldnt' have put that RedBull in that same spot. Quite frankly, one might wonder where DannyRic would have placed that RedBull if his race wasn't ruined when his rear left tire went flat. The fact he actually made 4th after
all of what happened and was catching Kvyat makes it safe to say he could have been 2nd. Either way, that RedBull easily belongs up there as one of the big 3 : Merc, Ferrari and RedBull and if you ask me, it kinda seems like it's rather Merc, RedBull, Ferrari at this point.

Kvyat imho is just clumsy, or has gotten clumsy, and quite frankly, if that's caused by the pressure of being in the big RedBull team, then really, adios amigo. I don't see Kvyat's performances justyfying his presence in a Topteam like RedBull, and that's really what it's all about. If Kvyat could be concidered so good that he could just aswell be driving for Mercedes, Ferrari or perhaps Mclaren in it's better days, than sure, the critisism would be justified.

But really, whilst Daniel Ricciardo would definately be an asset for Mercedes, Ferrari, and Mclaren in it's glory days, that seriously can't be said about Kvyat.

One could have said that about Webber and Coulthard for example. Same goes for Raikkonen, Button, Rosberg, Massa.
Kvyat really does not fit that profile so again i wonder why people are mourning his demotion.

Verstappen is going to have to show and get to show his potential whether he really is fit for the job and does fit that category. If not, he's going out the door as easy as all former RedBull drivers, and non-redbull drivers of which some simply got so 'lucky' if you may to have their 'execution' postponed by driving in backmarker teams (Kovalainen, Trulli).

So please somebody tell me, what's the fuzz about Kvyat?

[bill shoe]

with all do respect, and for a moment completely putting Verstappen totally aside, but...really, what is so special about Daniil Kvyat?...So please somebody tell me, what's the fuzz about Kvyat?

Best short answer is that he is quite competitive with Ricciardo, and Ricciardo seems to either be an A-level talent (Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel), or quite arguably even better than that, more of an A+ level talent by himself. Therefore seems that Kvyat should be considered at the very least equal to, say, Bottas, Rosberg, Button, etc. (top of the very solid B-level). Admittedly we will both have firmer answers to this question by the end of the year thanks to Red Bull's clever switch and comparo...

[rayden]

I have not been getting that at all. Kvyat has not been remotely competitive with ricciardo.

Even last year, when people were singing his praises, He didn't look like much chop imo. It was more Ric having problems that made him look better.

[Webber2011]

Agree besides after Bianchi I don't think any driver would be crazy enough to crash on purpose.

I think a more plausible story is that Kyviat knowing about his position in the team figured out that the only way of preventing it was to score a podium or at least outdrive Ricciardio. Red Bull would face a serious backlash if they replaced him after a good result in front of his home crowd and probably would have decided against it.

So he had no option other than to go for broke. It would not surprise me if both incidences occurred because Kyviat was looking at Ricciardo instead of paying attention to that red thing in front of his own front wing.

I see it that way as well.
Ricciardo was on the outside of Seb, and we've all seen a Driver follow the guy making a pass to take advantage.
That's what he was trying to do I think, get past Daniel.
Daniil just got his braking wrong and the rest is history.

I didn't say he did it on purpose but F1 racers are notorious spoiled brats as many have pointed out on this thread. If you really feel that way then commit to a stance.

This demotion is essentially the end of DKs career for the moment unless he does something like put that TR on the podium. He would have known his RB drive was over before the lights turned off in Russia.

I think he knew it was his last chance and he over did it, seems pretty simple but he wasn't qualified to be in that car in the first place if that's how he handles pressure like that.

PS- gotta love how you guys missed the important part of my post - MV to RB deal was done in China, let that sink in.

You said you "suspect Kvyat intentionally made that mistake"

I'm intrigued to know how someone can do something intentionally, but not on purpose

[WaikeCU]

with all do respect, and for a moment completely putting Verstappen totally aside, but

really, what is so special about Daniil Kvyat?
Seriously, i haven't seen the slightest thing of him from his Toro Rosso days to the RedBull days that is even slightly
impressive or why one should bother about him anymore than Haryanto, Ericsson, Liuzzi (for crying out loud), Scott Speed (another of those failures), Bourdais, Buemi, Alguersuari or Vergne? To be honest, i rank Vergne, Alguersuari and Buemi better than Kvyat.

I could give a rat's *ss about kvyat's sacking. The only fuzz imho about it is that it's Max that's taking his seat. If Max never was there at Toro Rosso, and it would have been Sainz and Gasly @ Toro Rosso, and Kvyat sacked because he simply can't 'take it', would there still be such a big fuzz about it?

Knowing Helmut Marko's history on easy come, easy go F1 driver 'usage', i think there's way too much blame or fingers pointed towards Verstappen.Really, Kvyat was to show his potential through his driving capabilites, and quite frankly, hasn't been up to it. Yes he made a podium, but without being too unforgiving, i rather wonder whether any 'semi-experienced' f1 driver wouldnt' have put that RedBull in that same spot. Quite frankly, one might wonder where DannyRic would have placed that RedBull if his race wasn't ruined when his rear left tire went flat. The fact he actually made 4th after
all of what happened and was catching Kvyat makes it safe to say he could have been 2nd. Either way, that RedBull easily belongs up there as one of the big 3 : Merc, Ferrari and RedBull and if you ask me, it kinda seems like it's rather Merc, RedBull, Ferrari at this point.

Kvyat imho is just clumsy, or has gotten clumsy, and quite frankly, if that's caused by the pressure of being in the big RedBull team, then really, adios amigo. I don't see Kvyat's performances justyfying his presence in a Topteam like RedBull, and that's really what it's all about. If Kvyat could be concidered so good that he could just aswell be driving for Mercedes, Ferrari or perhaps Mclaren in it's better days, than sure, the critisism would be justified.

But really, whilst Daniel Ricciardo would definately be an asset for Mercedes, Ferrari, and Mclaren in it's glory days, that seriously can't be said about Kvyat.

One could have said that about Webber and Coulthard for example. Same goes for Raikkonen, Button, Rosberg, Massa.
Kvyat really does not fit that profile so again i wonder why people are mourning his demotion.

Verstappen is going to have to show and get to show his potential whether he really is fit for the job and does fit that category. If not, he's going out the door as easy as all former RedBull drivers, and non-redbull drivers of which some simply got so 'lucky' if you may to have their 'execution' postponed by driving in backmarker teams (Kovalainen, Trulli).

So please somebody tell me, what's the fuzz about Kvyat?

Time will only tell, because Verstappen has been clumsy as well last season and at the very beginning of this season.
- That shunt at Monaco, I thought he could have dealt with it a lot better than that
- The first lap at Silverstone, where he just spun off at the turn 1.
- Melbourne '16. Colliding with your teammate and nearly taking both off.

Some might forgive him for being his first season in F1 or being so young, but looking at Kvyat situation, F1 is a unforgiving job and every mistake will be punished badly. Red Bull see something special in Verstappen, just like they thought with Kvyat when promoted him to Red Bull. I seriously hope it doesn't have the effect of being rushed into Red Bull, just like Kvyat did, because unlike Kvyat he's moving to Red Bull during the season and at season's end. Thinking of it, he has been rushed to F1 from his early days till now. I can only think of a few drivers that were rushed into F1 and had been great from the beginning: Vettel, Kubica, Schumacher
I'm not entirely sure what Red Bull are trying to do, but securing Verstappen for the future is one thing for sure. With that being done, I think Red Bull will concentrate on making sure Daniel is having a faultless season. It could be his last season for Red Bull, because of Ferrari's interest in him. I don't know how the F1 works, but would Red Bull get a % of the signing fee when Ricciardo goes to Ferrari? If so, then they would want Ricciardo to have a great season, so his market value would increase big time. I think other than a Merc or a Ferrari, he's the only driver to have a led a GP as well. So that's a great season beginning for Ricciardo. What I would think of is they want to focus on Ricciardo till the end of the season, before moving that focus on Verstappen once Ricciardo is officially moving to Ferrari.

Time will only tell.

[Starscreamer]

Time will only tell, because Verstappen has been clumsy as well last season and at the very beginning of this season.
- That shunt at Monaco, I thought he could have dealt with it a lot better than that
- The first lap at Silverstone, where he just spun off at the turn 1.
- Melbourne '16. Colliding with your teammate and nearly taking both off.

.

1. Before the crash he was driving like a champ (have you seen his race before the crash???? )
2. Rookie mistake
3. Sainz was slow at that point, but he should actually overtake by himself.

Remember this kid is 18!
2013 driving karts
2014 F3 Van Amersfoort Racing (team had not won a race for years!!!)

Before people say I am a fanboy this is my opinion:
I think that this kid will win a race this season.
His dad was a talent (best F1 driver of the Netherlands), his mom was a talent... this boy is GOLD!!!!
And indeed time will tell

[Vasconia]

I think on Quali speed, you see Verstappen build up to it, and makes setup mistakes, where Sainz is instant quick an doesn't improve very much (because he has it often correct at the first go).
On raw one lap pace i think Sainz is the quicker one, but on race pace I think Verstappen is the faster one compared to Sainz.

It will be interessting to see how that translates to Ricciardo, who is insanely fast on both race pace and one lap pace.
He used to be more about one lap pace (compared to Vergne) but since then he got things sorted on the race pace front.

Will the RB12 suit Verstappens driving style?

This is a pretty interesting analysis. Because I had always thought that Max was faster on qualy due to his explosive driving style and character. While Carlos should be faster on long runs, because of his calmer character and ability to find the correct balance.

But this season and even in 2015 Carlos was as fast as Max on Saturdays, and perhaps also on Sundays, but the has had more problems with set-up and tyre degradation during some races, which is surprising IMO.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

It is going to be difficult for both Max and Kvyat to perform up to their fullest in their new teams, with new cars and new engineers. So, the result would, in all honest probability be that both will trail their team mates. It would be unfair to both, if the world starts assessing them immediately. They would need at least 5 or 6 race weekends to feel slightly comfortable and for Kvyat, it would be even more difficult from a mental perspective. To deal with demotion and then to find the motivation to then start from a step down. And for Max, he would be up against one of the best drivers on the grid and to fight the early blues and the tentativeness to NOT beach the car by trying to overdrive it, would be a big pressure in itself. I am eager to find out what he can really do.

In a way, both teams would be hurt with this and will be a step behind in fighting for their relative positions.

[Fulcrum]

Given Verstappen's occasionally petulant outbursts when attempting to pass a team-mate, and his adamant refusal to cede position to a team-mate, I'm interested to see what happens when Ricciardo appears in his mirrors, especially toward the end of a race where both are occupying reasonable positions.

Webber and Vettel didn't gel well when glory was at stake (think Malaysia and Turkey). Granted, the likelihood of fighting for a win is fairly remote, but fighting for the last step on the podium is possible.

Unfortunately for Ricciardo, he doesn't have much scope to improve his standing from this pairing. It will be expected that he beats Verstappen, and fairly handily considering his experience, age and domain knowledge of the team.

Beating Verstappen will satisfy that expectation, but then commentators will reduce the achievement by citing Verstappen's inexperience, etc...

Anything less than a proper beating and all the focus will be on Verstappen being 'close'.

Heaven help Ricciardo if he loses. He doesn't have 4 World Championships to defend himself with, and we know how useful they proved to Vettel when he lost.