Which car was better the F2007 or MP4-22

[mightyzigzagoon]

I wanted to ask this here as many people in other forums are saying the F2007 was a far better car than the MP4-22 which sounds very weird to me. So which car was the best in 2007, the Ferrari or the Mclaren? Please support your answer with valid facts/data.

[rich1701]

Was Kimi Raikkonen and Philipe Massa better than Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton?

[mightyzigzagoon]

Massa wasn't but Raikkonen did score more points than Hamilton and Alonso but what do you mean anyway?

[SiLo]

They were fairly equal machinery really. And the drivers in them were all of a very similar standard.

Personally I would say that it's more likely the Mclaren was the better car because the team scored more points that Ferrari over the season (before getting disqualified). Hamilton and Alonso were taking points off each other quite a bit whereas it didn't happen so much at Ferrari.

The problem is the differences between the two were very small, so it's difficult to objectively say which one was better, I just have my own opinion on it so you don't have to listen to me!

[FrukostScones]

I always though it was the MP4-22.

Didn't really see RAI in the 2007 as contender despite the good results.

I still think he lucked into the WDC because of the mess at McLaren.

(but maybe the McLaren drivers are/were just better then and would have been even better in the 2007...). so I don't know definitely

[Andres125sx]

I´m sure the F2007 (and F2008) were better than McLaren, not by far, but by a good margin

Massa fighting with Lewis for the title until last GP is the most obvious proof you will ever get, but also Kimi winning the title previous season. I think Kimi is not as good as some people think, he probably had some very good seasons, but to me he´s a step down Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel. And he won.

If McLaren was a better car, maybe in 2007 with Alonso and Lewis distributing points it could have some sense, but not in 2008 when Kovalainen was the squire of Lewis, being forced to let him pass even in first third of the season, something not even Ferrari has ever done despite the common jokes with Massa and Alonso, they never provided TOs on first half of the season, in 2008 McLaren did to maximize their chances, and even so Lewis had to wait till last lap of last GP to win the title fighting with Massa.


If the MP4-22 was a better car, then I know nothing about F1, Massa is a top driver comparable to Alonso and Lewis, and McLaren embarrasement about 2007 should be even bigger. But I´d even bet money that´s not the case

[WaikeCU]

I think the F2007 and F2008 had a longer wheelbase compared with the Mclaren. What about drivability in the rain? I think Mclaren had better drive in the rain than the Ferrari or it could just be that Lewis is more prolific in the rain compared to Kimi and Felipe.

[Vasconia]

I think the F2007 and F2008 had a longer wheelbase compared with the Mclaren. What about drivability in the rain? I think Mclaren had better drive in the rain than the Ferrari or it could just be that Lewis is more prolific in the rain compared to Kimi and Felipe.

He is but Kimi is not bad at att when it rains.

I think MP4-4 was better but with only with a small margin. So this discussion could be eternal because its extremely difficult to make 100% objective judgment.

[FW17]

Kimi and Alonso lost speed moving from Michelin to Bridgestone. Kimi lost more speed after winning the WDC

Both cars had different speeds at different circuits because of the wheel base. Ferrari faster on the open circuits while McLaren on the more twisty circuits. But when it came to the season decider at Interlagos, MP4-22 was nowhere in comparison to the F2007

[mightyzigzagoon]

Kimi and Alonso lost speed moving from Michelin to Bridgestone. Kimi lost more speed after winning the WDC

Both cars had different speeds at different circuits because of the wheel base. Ferrari faster on the open circuits while McLaren on the more twisty circuits. But when it came to the season decider at Interlagos, MP4-22 was nowhere in comparison to the F2007

"But when it came to the season decider at Interlagos, MP4-22 was nowhere in comparison to the F2007"

We don't know about that really, Alonso just stopped pushing , once he knew he wasn't going to get more than P3, Hamilton's pace at the back under traffic was much better than Alonso's in that race. There were also races like Monaco where Mclaren were on a different planet from Ferrari.

"Kimi and Alonso lost speed moving from Michelin to Bridgestone. Kimi lost more speed after winning the WDC"

I agree which is why I think Kimi was losing to Massa in the first 5 or so races.

Ron Dennis quote from that year

"I was particularly pleased for Kimi because he struggled a little at the beginning to adapt to the new team, car and particularly the Bridgestone tyre characteristics. What impressed me was that he worked with his engineers, understood the issues, got on top of the situation and, importantly and in the style of Michael, he did it in a quiet way within the privacy of the team."

[Vasconia]

Kimi and Alonso lost speed moving from Michelin to Bridgestone. Kimi lost more speed after winning the WDC

Both cars had different speeds at different circuits because of the wheel base. Ferrari faster on the open circuits while McLaren on the more twisty circuits. But when it came to the season decider at Interlagos, MP4-22 was nowhere in comparison to the F2007

Ferrari has been traditionally strong in Brazil as we saw other years(2006 or 2008).

[Pierce89]

Kimi and Alonso lost speed moving from Michelin to Bridgestone. Kimi lost more speed after winning the WDC

Both cars had different speeds at different circuits because of the wheel base. Ferrari faster on the open circuits while McLaren on the more twisty circuits. But when it came to the season decider at Interlagos, MP4-22 was nowhere in comparison to the F2007

Kimi and Alonso lost speed? Alonso hadn't even reached his peak yet. Alonso was incredible through 2012 at least and he might unleash utility again next year.
As for the cars the Macca had a much wider operating window aerodynamically, while the f2007 had a much greater peak aero efficiency and pace.
But, at Monaco and Hungary the Macca legitimately may have had more df when drag didn't matter.

[godlameroso]

Peak downforce is meaningless in comparison to how soon the downforce comes on. I'd say that peak downforce, most teams are probably not far away from each other at speeds above 250kph, but below that is where the big differences come into play. The Red Bull chassis is making more downforce at 80kph than the Manor is, I guarantee it, it's that low speed downforce that lets you break later, that lets you get on the gas sooner, that lets you carry more speed into a turn. So you actually catch the car in front even when your 8kph down at the end of the straight.

[Vasconia]

Kimi and Alonso lost speed moving from Michelin to Bridgestone. Kimi lost more speed after winning the WDC

Both cars had different speeds at different circuits because of the wheel base. Ferrari faster on the open circuits while McLaren on the more twisty circuits. But when it came to the season decider at Interlagos, MP4-22 was nowhere in comparison to the F2007

Kimi and Alonso lost speed? Alonso hadn't even reached his peak yet. Alonso was incredible through 2012 at least and he might unleash utility again next year.
As for the cars the Macca had a much wider operating window aerodynamically, while the f2007 had a much greater peak aero efficiency and pace.
But, at Monaco and Hungary the Macca legitimately may have had more df when drag didn't matter.

I think he refers only to 2007. Some people consider that drivers like Kimi and Fernando had some problems to adapt their driving style to Bridgestone tyres.

[krisfx]

If the MP4-22 was better, would the engineers have felt the need to cheat?