2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

[Pierce89]

Well, the fact that both McLarens beat both Williams, shows me that the chassis is better than the PU, even on a weekend where the chassis wasn't particularly happy.

Sure but the toro-rosso and Force india seems to have a better well-balanced chassis than Mclaren.
Toro-rosso on a year old PU is a second faster on a track that doesn't rely on power that much, surely the Honda PU can't be that bad.

The McLaren wasn't handling this weekend, as well as it has at previous tracks. The driver quotes make that clear. As an aside, I don't believe for a second that the current Honda is as good as the '15 Ferrari PU.

[adrianjordan]

Maybe I'm over simplifying, but could the sub-par engine mean that they're compromised on downforce which in turns leads to the graining and resultant lack of mechanical grip? And could they therefore be forced into running a sub-par suspension setup to try and alleviate some of this?

[BeardedAce]

Well, the fact that both McLarens beat both Williams, shows me that the chassis is better than the PU, even on a weekend where the chassis wasn't particularly happy.

Sure but the toro-rosso and Force india seems to have a better well-balanced chassis than Mclaren.
Toro-rosso on a year old PU is a second faster on a track that doesn't rely on power that much, surely the Honda PU can't be that bad.

The McLaren wasn't handling this weekend, as well as it has at previous tracks. The driver quotes make that clear. As an aside, I don't believe for a second that the current Honda is as good as the '15 Ferrari PU.

You are not believing in Boulier's lies, are you? At Lotus he lied to everyone's face saying that Kimi and the other staff were getting paid their salary while they weren't.
Merc has solid GPS data that the Honda PU is faster than the the last year Ferrari PU.
As Honda keeps pointing out that they need to improve the chassis too.

[Mad]

Honda needs to play hardball like Renault and start supplying other teams. They are not getting enough data to improve the PU and all the chassis's shortcomings are being labeled as "Honda's shortcomings".
The PU has improved massively, more reliable than Merc and Ferrari and the top speed ain't too bad. Button was doing 290 km/h at Monaco.
As long as Honda only supplies to one team Mclaren will treat them as the fall guy.
"The 3rd best chassis" wasn't even on par with Force India because the PU was too slow, PU lacked downforce, PU destroyed tires, PU has no grip man.

[FW17]

Honda needs to play hardball like Renault and start supplying other teams. They are not getting enough data to improve the PU and all the chassis's shortcomings are being labeled as "Honda's shortcomings".
The PU has improved massively, more reliable than Merc and Ferrari and the top speed ain't too bad. Button was doing 290 km/h at Monaco.
As long as Honda only supplies to one team Mclaren will treat them as the fall guy.
"The 3rd best chassis" wasn't even on par with Force India because the PU was too slow, PU lacked downforce, PU destroyed tires, PU has no grip man.

One of those things that is not going to happen

Who will take a Honda (discounted) engine? Williams or Sauber

Neither are capable of making good chassis

Honda's only other route is the Renault route which can be endless

Mclaren and Honda are the best for each other

[Chicane]

First and foremost i am a non technical guy and whatever i am saying is based on my research and viewing the sport as a fan.

This whole debate about Mclaren Honda's performance at Monaco should not be restricted to Chassis is sh*t or Engine is BS. Monaco is an unique track. There is no track like it on the calendar. Tires make the biggest difference here than on any other track because of the reliance on mechanical grip is far more than at any other circuit. Getting the tire to warm up quickly and getting them to operate in their window is so critical with these Pirelli tires in general but at Monaco it is extremely crucial to understand the tires properly. Post race comments from the team have said how the team struggled to get the tires working effectively. Drivers were also complaining about understeer in slow speed corners and as everyone knows at Monaco changing the balance is not simple as tweaking the front wing. I feel the primary reason for that is that there was no heat in the front tires which prevented them from digging in to the smooth asphalt at Monaco.

Tire pressures have been jacked up by Pirelli because they believe some teams are cleverly employing tricks to run at low pressures after the mandatory tire pressure checks. Now Pirelli have increased their minimum required tire pressures which has meant those who lack these clever tricks to lower the tire pressure slowly after the mandatory checks are paying a heavy price for it. Ferrari and Mclaren are struggling the most with this.

The next biggest differentiator is the ability of the suspension to ride the bumps and provide good grip at low speed corners. Yes Mclaren may be struggling with their suspension setup for this race but to pass an overall judgement based just on Monaco is not correct in my opinion.

The best way to extract lap time at Monaco is to give the drivers a car with good front end grip which gives them confidence to push. Front end grip was a major issue for both drivers and as a result they could not extract the lap time they would have other wise. The car was fastest in twisty S3 of Barcelona but getting the tires to work in Barcelona is a lot easier as the asphalt is really abrasive.

At Canada despite the long straights one lap pace of Mclaren will be good in my opinion as the car is excellent under braking and Canada is notorious on brakes also fuel consumption will be a non factor in qualifying. Race will be challenging though cos Canada has the heaviest fuel consumption and requires good top end grunt from the motor. If Honda are bringing in some upgrades on MGU-H and turbo to improve the exhaust energy harvesting which will aid in fuel efficiency it is going to be great. Honda haven't confirmed anything as much but if they bring in some upgrades this race can be a pleasantly surprising outing for the team.

[Mad]

Honda needs to play hardball like Renault and start supplying other teams. They are not getting enough data to improve the PU and all the chassis's shortcomings are being labeled as "Honda's shortcomings".
The PU has improved massively, more reliable than Merc and Ferrari and the top speed ain't too bad. Button was doing 290 km/h at Monaco.
As long as Honda only supplies to one team Mclaren will treat them as the fall guy.
"The 3rd best chassis" wasn't even on par with Force India because the PU was too slow, PU lacked downforce, PU destroyed tires, PU has no grip man.

One of those things that is not going to happen

Who will take a Honda (discounted) engine? Williams or Sauber

Neither are capable of making good chassis

Honda's only other route is the Renault route which can be endless

Mclaren and Honda are the best for each other

Why not Sauber? Honda wants to bring Japanese drivers in f1 and Sauber needs cash. Honda can supply them PU for reduced fee in exchange for a seat while that driver brings Japanese sponsors, although not sure how much Nasr or Ericsson is paying.
Heard Dennis blocked Honda from supplying Torro-Rosso. if Mclaren really have a better chassis surely they have nothing to worry about?

[Jolle]

Honda needs to play hardball like Renault and start supplying other teams. They are not getting enough data to improve the PU and all the chassis's shortcomings are being labeled as "Honda's shortcomings".
The PU has improved massively, more reliable than Merc and Ferrari and the top speed ain't too bad. Button was doing 290 km/h at Monaco.
As long as Honda only supplies to one team Mclaren will treat them as the fall guy.
"The 3rd best chassis" wasn't even on par with Force India because the PU was too slow, PU lacked downforce, PU destroyed tires, PU has no grip man.

One of those things that is not going to happen

Who will take a Honda (discounted) engine? Williams or Sauber

Neither are capable of making good chassis

Honda's only other route is the Renault route which can be endless

Mclaren and Honda are the best for each other

It's not that easy and there is no quick fix.
Ever since they decided to start from scratch for the 2013 season they've been on the back foot. Where other teams have developed two basic designs for the last 8 years (2009-2013 and 2014-2016) McLaren did four (2009-2012, 2013, 2014, 2015-2016). This means they are now at least a year down on development. You can also see that when they had some success over this period, wins or podiums, they were in the same development cycle as the rest.

The Honda engine isn't what it could be yet, but that just masks the big problems McLaren brings on itself.

[proteus]

Honda needs to play hardball like Renault and start supplying other teams. They are not getting enough data to improve the PU and all the chassis's shortcomings are being labeled as "Honda's shortcomings".
The PU has improved massively, more reliable than Merc and Ferrari and the top speed ain't too bad. Button was doing 290 km/h at Monaco.
As long as Honda only supplies to one team Mclaren will treat them as the fall guy.
"The 3rd best chassis" wasn't even on par with Force India because the PU was too slow, PU lacked downforce, PU destroyed tires, PU has no grip man.

U have to look to the Williams to see how much of the difference a powerful engine makes.

[Sayeman]

Honda needs to play hardball like Renault and start supplying other teams. They are not getting enough data to improve the PU and all the chassis's shortcomings are being labeled as "Honda's shortcomings".
The PU has improved massively, more reliable than Merc and Ferrari and the top speed ain't too bad. Button was doing 290 km/h at Monaco.
As long as Honda only supplies to one team Mclaren will treat them as the fall guy.
"The 3rd best chassis" wasn't even on par with Force India because the PU was too slow, PU lacked downforce, PU destroyed tires, PU has no grip man.

U have to look to the Williams to see how much of the difference a powerful engine makes.

Isn't the Williams chassis designed around the "Lowest Drag, Highest top speed" philosophy?
But yeah, in some circuit the PU is more crucial than the chassis. and Honda will suffer on those this year.

[mclaren111]

Motorsport:

Ferrari believes F1 title is still possible

Now we have Ferrari joining us talking nonsense and making false promises

[Jolle]

Motorsport:

Ferrari believes F1 title is still possible

Now we have Ferrari joining us talking nonsense and making false promises

Stranger things have happened!

Oh wait... There haven't...

[DiogoBrand]

I wonder why would Ron Dennis threaten to sue Christian Horner for trying to get a Honda deal if the deal is so detrimental for McLaren.
Come on guys. I've been saying this for some time now and getting a lot of heat for it: Honda's power unit isn't any good, very likely to still be the worst on the grid. But McLaren's chassis isn't anything special either.
Good thing that at least now a lot of you realized the amount of garbage that comes from EB's mouth.

[Vasconia]

Motorsport:

Ferrari believes F1 title is still possible

Now we have Ferrari joining us talking nonsense and making false promises

Stranger things have happened!

Oh wait... There haven't...

2007?

I know, that Ferrari was pretty good but no one thought that Kimi was going to win, and he did it.

[Vasconia]

Honda needs to play hardball like Renault and start supplying other teams. They are not getting enough data to improve the PU and all the chassis's shortcomings are being labeled as "Honda's shortcomings".
The PU has improved massively, more reliable than Merc and Ferrari and the top speed ain't too bad. Button was doing 290 km/h at Monaco.
As long as Honda only supplies to one team Mclaren will treat them as the fall guy.
"The 3rd best chassis" wasn't even on par with Force India because the PU was too slow, PU lacked downforce, PU destroyed tires, PU has no grip man.

U have to look to the Williams to see how much of the difference a powerful engine makes.

Isn't the Williams chassis designed around the "Lowest Drag, Highest top speed" philosophy?
But yeah, in some circuit the PU is more crucial than the chassis. and Honda will suffer on those this year.

Montreal agrees with you. Lets hope that they finally bring a serious and good update in the PU.