Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[godlameroso]

First off, you're way off topic, this is the Honda Power Unit thread, take this to the team thread.

“Everything worked well today, including the new turbo from Honda. However, we didn’t have too much grip, and need to look at improving our traction out of corners."
F.A.

"The car feels good and is enjoyable to drive, but there are some set-up issues to resolve, which we’ll do tonight."

Hardly feels they're damning the chassis, there's little grip for everyone, it's the nature of the circuit. Furthermore, their race pace is firmly towards the front end of the midfield. The only cars the are clearly quicker are Ferrari, Mercedes, and Red Bull.

It's bad enough that you're spouting non-sense, but you're doing it in the wrong forum and furthermore you contribute nothing to the technical discussion of the power unit.

[Soichiro]

At one point in FP1 despite being in top 10 on timesheet their Top speed was all of 318km/h vs 328 of one of the STRs and 338 by Bottas. A HUGE 20km/h difference. Even in FP2 the margin is very low but they are still the lowest at 327,Mercedes did a Look up FP1 again and you will find it somewhere. The majority of deficit here is clearly because of the PU.


In FP2, In S3 STRs are almost 2/10ths up on McLarens. While being ~1.5-2/10ths slower in S1 and 1/10ths slower in S2.

KVY in FP2 had a 338 speed trap while being P14,Sainz 331 while being P10 and Button had 327 while being P7 . Clearly they are making up speed somewhere. Hint : It's not on the straights.

Nico was at 342 at speed traps (not 327 as you implied by saying "same as the mercs").

Both Alonso and Button were faster than Sainz and Kvyat in S1 and S2 but lost time in S3 (just in case you dont know what S3 is, it's that long straight)

While topspeeds are not that representative always, the fact that McLaren is bleeding time in S3 but gaining in S1 and S2 speaks the truth.

See the difference? You are just going by "one of the commentators mentioned", I on the other hand have numbers that prove that they are making up time on twisty bits and losing time on straights vs STRs which prove that Honda is still underpowered compared to the 2015 Ferrari PU. I am kind of amazed people even talk such baloney.

Hmmm.., and those have nothing to do with DF/drag levels? What can you tell us about RBR sector times/speed then?

They had a top speed of 328km/h (+1 km/h compared to McHonda). From some graphs posted, Renault was shown to be much stronger than Honda, right there with Ferrari, yet RBR had a bit slower S1 time compared to McHonda and gained all the lap difference in S2 (2/10). In S1/S3 they were very close, close enough to say their pace could be the same. So according to this Honda is on pair/a bit stronger than Renault? Or wait now the "While topspeeds are not that representative always" can come into play, right?

I am not saying Honda is where it should be or that is good enough or better than Renault or maybe even better than Ferrari 2015 (although it shows signs that could be at least very close - just my opinion). Don't get me wrong, but I read some conclusions and statistics just being twisted to suit someones opinions.

Honda has progressed well during those first races and I expect them to have further gains in the upcoming races. Hope the TC makes the difference in the race and McHonda can end the race as at least 5th car on merit.

[Mad]

You clearly seem to be a troll with one agenda but I will feed you one time.

Today they were at the bottom in terms of top speed, much lower than 2015 Ferrari PU STR and yet the laptimes were a lot better in comparision. So where exactly they are making up for that huge chunk of missing speed on that straight? There is your answer about how "average" the chassis is.

Exactly how was the Mc-Honda "Much lower in terms of top speed" compared to toro-rosso? One of the commentator's mentioned that Jenson was doing 327km/h, same as the Mercs.
Average chassis, average PU.

At one point in FP1 despite being in top 10 on timesheet their Top speed was all of 318km/h vs 328 of one of the STRs and 338 by Bottas. A HUGE 20km/h difference. Even in FP2 the margin is very low but they are still the lowest at 327,Mercedes did a Look up FP1 again and you will find it somewhere. The majority of deficit here is clearly because of the PU.


In FP2, In S3 STRs are almost 2/10ths up on McLarens. While being ~1.5-2/10ths slower in S1 and 1/10ths slower in S2.

KVY in FP2 had a 338 speed trap while being P14,Sainz 331 while being P10 and Button had 327 while being P7 . Clearly they are making up speed somewhere. Hint : It's not on the straights.

Nico was at 342 at speed traps (not 327 as you implied by saying "same as the mercs").

Both Alonso and Button were faster than Sainz and Kvyat in S1 and S2 but lost time in S3 (just in case you dont know what S3 is, it's that long straight)

While topspeeds are not that representative always, the fact that McLaren is bleeding time in S3 but gaining in S1 and S2 speaks the truth.

See the difference? You are just going by "one of the commentators mentioned", I on the other hand have numbers that prove that they are making up time on twisty bits and losing time on straights vs STRs which prove that Honda is still underpowered compared to the 2015 Ferrari PU. I am kind of amazed people even talk such baloney.

After reading your comment i am kind of amazed how someone can write so much baloney and then gets amazed himself of other people's baloney

[Postmoe]

No. Just. No

Stop right there...

The 1% is just number to throw out to the media. And here you are deep into calcultaion with low quality data.

It could reeeaally be 0.9% rounded up.. which would mean honda has 900hp. Not bad if so.. But my point is the numbers from the media u cannot follow sometimes. Rule of thumb is that engineers tend to give numbers with at least two significant figures.. We were taught to use three minimum actually... So if u see any quotes with only one significant figure. It is highly doubtful you are getting anything accurate only numbers to appease the fans.

So if they give a three figure number it is the reliable information? Damned engineers and their strange inability to lie when specific meteorological and figuretistic conditions are met.

Sounds silly but the answer is actually yes! If the say a three figure number there must be a reason why they would give three significant figures. Keyword is significant figures. If you give three significant figures it means you intention is to emphasize the accuracy of your claim. On the other hand If i am promising my boss something and i aint too confident no way in hell am i giving three figures to hold onto.. Im giving him a very rounded number. I aint gonna tell him how much rounding i did though! It is almost like a white lie.... Hasegwawa will be like "I mean, mmnyeah it is 1% if you round it up.. "

My point is, they'll never release three digit figures to the media, so we cannot really know. This may be true internally, but sadly we cannot differenciate it from the outside. We're bound to guesses.

[kasio]

At one point in FP1 despite being in top 10 on timesheet their Top speed was all of 318km/h vs 328 of one of the STRs and 338 by Bottas. A HUGE 20km/h difference. Even in FP2 the margin is very low but they are still the lowest at 327,Mercedes did a Look up FP1 again and you will find it somewhere. The majority of deficit here is clearly because of the PU.


In FP2, In S3 STRs are almost 2/10ths up on McLarens. While being ~1.5-2/10ths slower in S1 and 1/10ths slower in S2.

KVY in FP2 had a 338 speed trap while being P14,Sainz 331 while being P10 and Button had 327 while being P7 . Clearly they are making up speed somewhere. Hint : It's not on the straights.

Nico was at 342 at speed traps (not 327 as you implied by saying "same as the mercs").

Both Alonso and Button were faster than Sainz and Kvyat in S1 and S2 but lost time in S3 (just in case you dont know what S3 is, it's that long straight)

While topspeeds are not that representative always, the fact that McLaren is bleeding time in S3 but gaining in S1 and S2 speaks the truth.

See the difference? You are just going by "one of the commentators mentioned", I on the other hand have numbers that prove that they are making up time on twisty bits and losing time on straights vs STRs which prove that Honda is still underpowered compared to the 2015 Ferrari PU. I am kind of amazed people even talk such baloney.

Well. S3 is also hairpin.
I made conclusion after watching onboard from Rossberg in Monaco, that McLaren is weak in slow corners. Cant turn, no traction - i don't know but they lost all their advantage in Monaco's 3 slowspeed corners before tunnel. Also sector times proved that.

So S3 time is lost in hairpin not in stright! its slow speed corner and they suck at that.

[BeardedAce]

Gotta give Honda credit for this huge improvement from last year. Everyone was expecting another bottom of the pile results for the car and yet they have proved to be a strong midfield contender even in the most power hungry circuits.
And with 12 tokens in hand things can only go better.

Roll on 2017!!! WoooHoooooo!!!

[GoranF1]

Next update Austria or England.

AMuS

[epo]

Gotta give Honda credit for this huge improvement from last year. Everyone was expecting another bottom of the pile results for the car and yet they have proved to be a strong midfield contender even in the most power hungry circuits.
And with 12 tokens in hand things can only go better.

Roll on 2017!!! WoooHoooooo!!!

Yeah awesome upgrade

[Sevach]

At one point in FP1 despite being in top 10 on timesheet their Top speed was all of 318km/h vs 328 of one of the STRs and 338 by Bottas. A HUGE 20km/h difference. Even in FP2 the margin is very low but they are still the lowest at 327,Mercedes did a Look up FP1 again and you will find it somewhere. The majority of deficit here is clearly because of the PU.


In FP2, In S3 STRs are almost 2/10ths up on McLarens. While being ~1.5-2/10ths slower in S1 and 1/10ths slower in S2.

KVY in FP2 had a 338 speed trap while being P14,Sainz 331 while being P10 and Button had 327 while being P7 . Clearly they are making up speed somewhere. Hint : It's not on the straights.

Nico was at 342 at speed traps (not 327 as you implied by saying "same as the mercs").

Both Alonso and Button were faster than Sainz and Kvyat in S1 and S2 but lost time in S3 (just in case you dont know what S3 is, it's that long straight)

While topspeeds are not that representative always, the fact that McLaren is bleeding time in S3 but gaining in S1 and S2 speaks the truth.

See the difference? You are just going by "one of the commentators mentioned", I on the other hand have numbers that prove that they are making up time on twisty bits and losing time on straights vs STRs which prove that Honda is still underpowered compared to the 2015 Ferrari PU. I am kind of amazed people even talk such baloney.

Setup counts, some teams STR being a case brought lower downforce packages, others ran pretty much like Barcelona.
I do think it's telling that Mclaren qualifying performance was pretty similar in Barcelona (medium/low power requirement), Monaco (extremely low power requirement) and Canada (power track).

Here is the speed trap and speed at the sector beams from qualy yesterday.
http://www.fia.com/file/43151/download?token=ejkjzKAG

http://www.fia.com/file/43150/download?token=cyJeiler

Mclaren sure is slow everywhere, but on acceleration they mix with Toro Rosso, on top speed(drag being a bigger factor) they don't.
Notice where a certain Lewis Hamilton is on the speed trap

The Mclaren chassis is middling in my opinion, not worthy of competing amongst the best.

Right now the main problem is that on race day Mclaren Honda loose further performance, qualy "flatters" them a bit right now.

Bottas was half a second quicker in qualy, in the race he lapped Alonso.

[the EDGE]

The Mclaren chassis is middling in my opinion, not worthy of competing amongst the best.

Right now the main problem is that on race day Mclaren Honda loose further performance, qualy "flatters" them a bit right now.

Bottas was half a second quicker in qualy, in the race he lapped Alonso.

That is because of the excessive fuel saving required on race day, in quali there is NO fuel saving. The Honda PU is down on Power, but worst it is to thirsty.

As for the chassis, its still along way off Redbull, but I don't think they're far behind Merc & Ferrari. The real issue with the chassis seems to be tyre management, but that could be caused by chassis OR lack of power OR probably both

[Andres125sx]

Alonso confirmed they used a wet setup, so taking this into consideration, I think finishing so close to top 10 on a power hungry track, with wet setup, is far from embarrasing

I´ll post the link on the team thread

[GoranF1]

Spanish paper AS :

*MER: 950cv
*FER 2016: 930
*REN: +900
*FER 2015: 860
*Honda: 844cv

http://motor.as.com/motor/2016/06/13/fo ... 51482.html

[PlatinumZealot]

I believe Ferrari is now just as powerful as Mercedes.

[Petroltorque]

Those figures seem plucked from thin air. Even for PEAK power outputs they seem well wide of th mark.
In the forum topic on power output of the PUS the calculate peak output fo Mercedes-Benz was 910bhp. Renault's press release stated a peak output for their definitive 2016 unit was 865bhp.

[PhillipM]

I think a lot of the power difference is massively over exaggerated, most of the difference is in deployment and fuel efficiency which dictates how long they can run at max power, rather than the actual maximum power output.
People seem to forget how many Merc engined cars are running around near the back of the grid in low drag setups...