JPM wins rookie of the year

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ben_watkins
ben_watkins
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JPM wins rookie of the year

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Juan Pablo Montoya has been awarded the rookie of the year award in the NASCAR series, following his 20th place finish in the championship, during his rookie year..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/7102535.stm

Belatti
Belatti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

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Sometimes I wonder what is the exact definition of rookie.
Its a 19 year old boy in his debut year in some serie?
Its a 30 year old experienced "other series" champion/winner who races for 1st time in another series?

I know JPM has done good this year, but he is not a rookie. He knows oval tracks, he knows how to manage 750HP, maybe he is new to Nascar but its not the same as a 19 yougster that gets his first drive.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

MrT
MrT
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I know what you mean, but there would always be arguments if it wasn;t black and white:

A rookie is someone in their first year of competing in a particular series.

Otherwise you could say Hamilton isn't exactly a rookie, hes competed in all manner of cars for over 10 years....

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Ciro Pabón
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Well, thanks Mr. T for starting this thread (that I'm afraid will be short lived).

My most appreciated friend Belatti must have written that after Argentina's soccer team was defeated by Colombia yesterday (he, he), on its way to the World Cup... ;) Let me try to contradict his comment.

Montoya has won two races, something no latin driver (including argentinians or brazilians... :)) has ever done. That's enough for me (thanks again, Juan, for being the best latin driver for more than a decade, coming from a country without racing history).

As usual, Mr. Montoya keeps doing good things in his inimitable style. Also, as usual, Juan shined more in the beginning, before running into troubles in his condition as foreigner, something that part of the grid (as usual... sigh) has found to be a real menace for the "status" at any series he has raced. He lived this at Saab, F3 and F1 championships; now he has lived through it in NASCAR. Few drivers in history have accomplished what Juan has (perhaps, Fangio) under THAT circumstances, fighting not only the drivers, the car and the track, but the establishment, and not precisely in a quiet way.

You're free to dismiss his "rookie state", but he classifies as one, in my highly biased opinion.

Blending into a culture like the southern one is not easy. The fact that he has had to learn a completely new set of rules and racing circumstances, and the fact that nothing could be more dissimilar than the type of cars he has raced all his life and the type of cars he confronts now (he raced his last tin top when he was 19 or something like that, btw, a puny Chevrolet with 4 cylinders and 1.500 cc!), only makes this more patent: he's a hell of a driver with little or no knowledge of the task at hand in NASCAR, when he started there at the end of 2006.

BTW, I wonder why no australian Super V8 or argentinian TC drivers have ever be successful at NASCAR racing.

Well, to be sincere, that's a rethorical question: I don't really wonder about it, I know NASCAR is one of the most competitive series in the world, much, much more than F1, which hinges a lot around money.

I've followed NASCAR since the 70's, with passion, as some people in the forum can attest. I always defend NASCAR racing quality, the knowledge of its fans and its level of entertainement, as my american friends know.

To give Belatti some perspective into what Mr. Montoya has accomplished, allow me to add this:

I remember the failure of Marcus Ambrose, two times Super V8 champion at NASCAR: he won no races in 52 attempts and only classified 8 times in the top ten. He raced for the Rookie award with no success, btw.

Mr. A.J. Allmendiger won 5 of 14 Champcar races in 2006: at NASCAR, in 2007, he qualified only 13 times in 30 attemps, while Juan has an impecable qualification record, missing pole position by thousands of a second in his early attempts.

Sam Hornish Jr., 3 times Indy Car champion had not a single top-ten in 8 starts (at Busch!).

Steve Kinser, of Sprint Car fame, raced 5 times before being replaced.

We're talking about the largest racing organization in USA, where only Mario Andretti, the great, has ever been a successful "foreigner". That speaks volumes to me, but, hey, you're free to think it's an easy thing to do...

So, Belatti, tongue-in-cheek, what's in the way of Fontana's career at NASCAR? He certainly is no rookie in tin-tops, and he had F1 experience.
Ciro

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m3_lover
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Job well done for JPM. It looks like Nascar is the place to be for a racecar driver in terms of earning potential and long term stability to having a career.
Simon: Nils? You can close in now. Nils?
John McClane: [on the guard's phone] Attention! Attention! Nils is dead! I repeat, Nils is dead, ----head. So's his pal, and those four guys from the East German All-Stars, your boys at the bank? They're gonna be a little late.
Simon: [on the phone] John... in the back of the truck you're driving, there's $13 billon dollars worth in gold bullion. I wonder would a deal be out of the question?
John McClane: [on the phone] Yeah, I got a deal for you. Come out from that rock you're hiding under, and I'll drive this truck up your ass.

Belatti
Belatti
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WOW CIRO THAT WAS REACTIVE ANSWER!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

[-X However I feel you had been unfair:

1) I have not questioned JPM talent, neither in this or in another thread. My opinion is he is a helluva driver and I have always cheered for him when he was at F1.
2) I agree with you, that he has succeed where almost no foraigner did, that Nascar is competitive, that he has never driven a "roofed car" with that characteristics, etc.
3) He is the best latin driver form this decade (who else?)
4) Fontana is not big thing, I know him, but deserved a better F1 chance than the one the shorty Peter Sauber gave him.

and...

4) I wrote that BEFORE that football match (see the date)
5) Sadly a football team... is a team... it depends on every player, and if Manchester´s star CARLITOS TEVEZ blows in anger and does stupid things, it goes against the rest of the team.
6) You have to admit that with 11 players we would have won easily, I´m sure you where [-o< for MESSI to stay quiet

NOTE: I haven´t watch the football match, I find it boring, however I like playing it :wink:

FINAL CONCLUSION: I WAS JUST QUESTIONING THE DEFINITION OF ROOKIE
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

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Ciro Pabón
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Belatti wrote:... However I feel you had been unfair....

and...

4) I wrote that BEFORE that football match (see the date)
Really? Ooops. Sorry, my mistake. Rereading my post I can see your point: someone could think I was just defending Montoya "to the last drop", like a maniatic fan, shooting some cheap shots to Argentina, in a totally gratuitious way and taking your short post as an excuse to glorify Monty without apparent reason. Such a repugnant action is far from me. ;)

Thank heaven people here knows me, and also know I couldn't be partial to any driver, much less towards the magnificent, amazing, independent-minded and glorious Juan Montoya, pilot extraordinaire... :lol:

About Tévez, you know how these colombians are: my compatriot, Bustos stepped on his foot, out of sight of the referee, right before Tévez made his disqualifying fault... What kind of person could do that? I strongly disapprove such moves, and, as you, I disagree with that kind of attitudes, even if that meant to win over Argentina, something that in Colombia does not make us happy in any way ( \:D/ yupiii!), unless the score is 5-0... :)
Ciro

DaveKillens
DaveKillens
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Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

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Belatti, the answers you seek are in this web page.
http://www.jayski.com/stats/2007/roty2007.htm

Belatti
Belatti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
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Thanks Dave.

Ciro, it´s OK, you can be all the biased you want, just try not to end like Manchild. :wink:

About cheating.. well, once Football was a gentlemen sport... then Dr. Bilardo and friends appeared (with nails they began pricking players in the matches) and rival intimidation techniques where taken to perfection by Barros-Schellotto brothers (insulting and punching rivals stealthiliy than a Ninja) not to mention expert actor (and Oscar winner) Ariel Ortega (a feather touches and he would give two loops in the air and fall -always inside area-).

So, my LA brother Ciro, your countrymen learnt from the best (if not ask ex-Boca Juniors Bermudez, a good pupil)

WHAT I REALLY FEEL SORRY FOR IS THAT NOW IT SEEMS THAT F1 HAS BEEN INFECTED FROM FOOTBALL. :(
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

Ignis Fatuus
Ignis Fatuus
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Bellati, Ciro: Why not let the man speak for himself on this topic? :wink:
"It was funny when they even told me I was in the rookie program," Montoya said Tuesday at Lowe's Motor Speedway during a luncheon to honor the top rookies in each of NASCAR's three national series. "I thought I would be an exception or something. But in a lot of ways, I was very much a rookie. Do I have a lot of experience at a race track? Yeah, I do have a lot of experience, but I have a lot of experience in open-wheel and IndyCar, Formula One. But I'd never driven a stock car before.

"Coming here and getting myself into a stock car, it was a big deal. I've got to say, it's been an exciting year."
Now I can finally take the yellow rookie stripes of a new NASCAR fan off my computer screen, I must say it really was an exciting year. :D
“It’s frustrating, but we had the pace. It wasn’t bad luck. It was a reflection of our intensity of development.” - Ron Dennis

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Ciro Pabón
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Well, thanks, Ignis. It seems JPM started the year thinking as Belatti and ended realizing how tough NASCAR is. BTW, I'd like to mention JPM earned 4.8 millions of devaluated dollars on the track and got half the points of the winner, Jimmie Jhonson, maybe not well know around here.
Ciro

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zenvision
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Joined: 12 Sep 2006, 19:06
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m3_lover wrote:Job well done for JPM. It looks like Nascar is the place to be for a racecar driver in terms of earning potential and long term stability to having a career.
Earning Potential? Really? I know that they have a higher longevity (whats the normal retiring and starting age?) but I don't think he'll be paid more than he ever did in F1.
"Aerodynamics are for people who can't build good engines" Enzo Ferrari

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m3_lover
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That was my mistake, but maybe over the career he could make it??

It seems that IRL and CART do not offer the same monetary compensation/contract length as it would if you were driving Nascar. What other series offers the same compensation/contract length/endorsement deals as Nascar? JV, Montoya, Patrick C, Scott Speed,...more and more drivers are trying to get in.
Simon: Nils? You can close in now. Nils?
John McClane: [on the guard's phone] Attention! Attention! Nils is dead! I repeat, Nils is dead, ----head. So's his pal, and those four guys from the East German All-Stars, your boys at the bank? They're gonna be a little late.
Simon: [on the phone] John... in the back of the truck you're driving, there's $13 billon dollars worth in gold bullion. I wonder would a deal be out of the question?
John McClane: [on the phone] Yeah, I got a deal for you. Come out from that rock you're hiding under, and I'll drive this truck up your ass.

Belatti
Belatti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
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Ciro Pabón wrote:I disagree with that kind of attitudes, even if that meant to win over Argentina, something that in Colombia does not make us happy in any way ( \:D/ yupiii!), unless the score is 5-0... :)
Does a 3-0 score (with 3 penalty kicks missed by Martin "Palerra" Palermo) make Colombians happy? :D :oops: :D
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

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Ciro Pabón
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Belatti wrote:Does a 3-0 score (with 3 penalty kicks missed by Martin "Palerra" Palermo) make Colombians happy? :D :oops: :D
Not much. :cry:

We preferred the time when Schiavi, Cangele, Cascini and Burdiso missed. :wink:

NOTE: Sorry for going OOT. For those not "into it", I imagine (correct me if I'm wrong) Belatti is saying that Boca Juniors defeated Cúcuta (a colombian team) 3-0.

I'm longing for 2004 final game, when Boca erred 4 penalties of 4, and Caldas (another small colombian team) won.
Ciro