Aston Martin wants hyper-car to be faster than F1 cars

[SR71]

EDIT:

After looking at some more photos I see a double diffuser, the white line traces this as well as the leading edge of the floor.

Overall still following the RED line as i see it...

https://postimg.org/image/raiphxlz5/

Your white line is what I basically described several posts before...

Your red line is a bit of a red herring, I fear. If you had an aero body like that the centre of pressure would be massively in front of the centre of mass and the car would be totally undriveable, especially with the blue one in front. You need to balance the downforce distribution to be consistent with the mass distribution, with the centre of pressure to the rear of the mass. That what gives stability at speed. Think of a dart - centre of mass at the front, centre of pressure at the rear.

Most likely is your blue line (but smaller, obviously) and your white line. This would give a distribution of downforce consistent with the major masses. By placing the throat of the diffuser somewhat rear of centrally in the wheelbase, it will be close to the big mass that is the engine/transmission group.

Look at the 001 and compare it to the pressure plot:
http://www.totalsimulation.co.uk/wp/wp- ... 24x520.png
I think the front wing will not be as effective as in the plot, not will the rear diffuser. I think the central blue portion will be much bigger on the 001 with the rear end balancing it to ensure correct distribution.

Certainly, there is nothing much forward of the car's waist, other than the front diffuser/wing, that will generate downforce in meaningfully large amounts. So far as we have seen, anyway. Having a flat portion of floor near the waist, driven by the diffusers, would seem to be the obvious solution from the images available.

Yeah I generally agree of course, but with a complete absense of a flat floor (at least at press time yesterday) I think we could be seeing a new concept for ground effect which lead me to my red line... I know the red line is an over simplification and the white line brings more realism.

I guess its more 2 medium wings (white and blue) that achieve the principal the red line shows.

Overall i see the body more like a wing upside down flying 2 feet off the ground than a flat floor + classic diffuser + classic wings front and rear...

[Just_a_fan]

Yeah I generally agree of course, but with a complete absense of a flat floor (at least at press time yesterday) I think we could be seeing a new concept for ground effect which lead me to my red line...

The point is that there is some flat floor - it forms the throats of the two side tunnels between which is the cabin "pod". The flat throat section starts at the waist where the yellow strake is. Looking from the rear, there appears to be an area of throat that isn't just a curved surface. That's my reading of it, anyway.

Not sure what "new concept" you're referring to. A pair of side pods tunnels with a shaped body pod between is '70s era ground effect.

I go back to my point of a few days ago. The car looks like a road going, refined LMP1 car. It's beautiful, it's refined but it's not "new" aerodynamically.

[No Lotus]

So basically the ideal solution is the one from the Lotus T88, where the mass can be transferred from side to side, but the aero stays "flat" and moves with the road?

I think it's the way to go for ultimate performance, although there are much better and more elegant ways to implement it than as done in that car. Given the current hypercar arms race, I believe we'll eventually see a twin chassis hypercar.

In your POV, on what way would RB's concept be able to work (if at all)? From the pictures shown the CoG and underbody seem too high to generate efficient and stable downforce.

I think in terms of aero the car is going to be incredible. It's the packaging I can't get over and how high it seems.

[SR71]

Yeah I generally agree of course, but with a complete absense of a flat floor (at least at press time yesterday) I think we could be seeing a new concept for ground effect which lead me to my red line...

The point is that there is some flat floor - it forms the throats of the two side tunnels between which is the cabin "pod". The flat throat section starts at the waist where the yellow strake is. Looking from the rear, there appears to be an area of throat that isn't just a curved surface. That's my reading of it, anyway.

Not sure what "new concept" you're referring to. A pair of side pods tunnels with a shaped body pod between is '70s era ground effect.

I go back to my point of a few days ago. The car looks like a road going, refined LMP1 car. It's beautiful, it's refined but it's not "new" aerodynamically.

Nothing is new in the true sense of the word you're correct these are recycled principals used on race cars of the past. You can pull references for features on this car from many, but all of them combined with the smallest flat floor ive seen on a race car or or production means something new is happening here.

The devil is in the details though.... cant wait for more of them to be revealed.

[humble sabot]

Anyone want to speculate on the powerplant?
I love the aero concept, but the projected powerplant seems somehow at odds with itself.
They're talking naturally aspirated v12 for 1000bhp, using 5-7 ish litres (depending on who's talking about the car) of swept volume, and somewhere in the mix being enough electric thrust to replace a reverse gear, and "maybe" for other uses?
Seems like a pretty vague plan that might well change

[krisfx]

Yeah I generally agree of course, but with a complete absense of a flat floor (at least at press time yesterday) I think we could be seeing a new concept for ground effect which lead me to my red line...

The point is that there is some flat floor - it forms the throats of the two side tunnels between which is the cabin "pod". The flat throat section starts at the waist where the yellow strake is. Looking from the rear, there appears to be an area of throat that isn't just a curved surface. That's my reading of it, anyway.

Not sure what "new concept" you're referring to. A pair of side pods tunnels with a shaped body pod between is '70s era ground effect.

I go back to my point of a few days ago. The car looks like a road going, refined LMP1 car. It's beautiful, it's refined but it's not "new" aerodynamically.

Nothing is new in the true sense of the word you're correct these are recycled principals used on race cars of the past. You can pull references for features on this car from many, but all of them combined with the smallest flat floor ive seen on a race car or or production means something new is happening here.

The devil is in the details though.... cant wait for more of them to be revealed.

In the automotive industry, they hardly ever bring in new concepts (from what I see), it's all about making money in the lowest amount of time, which means there's no real room to step away from the status quo. Feel free to correct me, though

[joseff]

I've been through several videos of this car, and I can't see where they're going to put the mufflers & cooling system...


That's how much cooling a 1000+hp Agera needs


And the 4 silencers on the Huayra

[Andres125sx]

Sorry to post this picture again, but I´m still trying to assimilate it. This is what I call mindblowing!

I know Newey can get it wrong too, but I guess what SR71 was trying to say is people at top level deserve some credit, instead of assuming he did something wrong, a wise person would first think he´s missing something wich would explain that solution

Specially when we´ve only seen a scale model. Do you really think they showed everthing? This was just to show something to the media, but I´m sure the real car will have several differences. For example, I´d expect some sort of active aero, apart from active suspensions obviously, that´s main handicap for F1 cars, tons of drag on unnecessary situations (straights), so if I´d be designing a car with the intention to beat a F1 car, active aero would be a must as that´s one of the few aspects where a production car can be more efficient than a F1 car.

[Big Mangalhit]

What about active cooling? Since the car will obviously need some massive cooling and there seems not to be any space.

Maybe they could direct the air through the underbody on corners and have massive DF and on straights redirect the air through the radiators and lose the DF and the drag associated and use them to cool the engine off. That would solve the cooling problem and probably would still keep a low drag.

[djos]

What about active cooling? Since the car will obviously need some massive cooling and there seems not to be any space.

Maybe they could direct the air through the underbody on corners and have massive DF and on straights redirect the air through the radiators and lose the DF and the drag associated and use them to cool the engine off. That would solve the cooling problem and probably would still keep a low drag.

There seems to be some very large engine cooling exits around and behind the rear wheels.

[domh245]

Horner just said on C4 that the car will be going for testing in 12 months

[SR71]

http://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sites/a ... k=5ptOcBtb Sorry to post this picture again, but I´m still trying to assimilate it. This is what I call mindblowing!

I know Newey can get it wrong too, but I guess what SR71 was trying to say is people at top level deserve some credit, instead of assuming he did something wrong, a wise person would first think he´s missing something wich would explain that solution

Specially when we´ve only seen a scale model. Do you really think they showed everthing? This was just to show something to the media, but I´m sure the real car will have several differences. For example, I´d expect some sort of active aero, apart from active suspensions obviously, that´s main handicap for F1 cars, tons of drag on unnecessary situations (straights), so if I´d be designing a car with the intention to beat a F1 car, active aero would be a must as that´s one of the few aspects where a production car can be more efficient than a F1 car.

There was a lot of mention of active aero during the original announcement of the project.

If the entire car is an upside down wing or 2 wings. Then as suggested by other forum members the smaller wings, the ones we usually consider the wings on an F1 car or LMP1 could be active to balance the center of pressure of the HUGE body wing. Adjusting the COP around a lap could dramatically effect performance in a positive direction, correct?

I'm still new to this aero stuff...

[SR71]

Horner just said on C4 that the car will be going for testing in 12 months

The timeline on this car is actually pretty insane.

Started in mid '15 design lock summer '16, shows what you can do when you have a lean and mean development team. You can bet the la Ferrari and 918 had 5+ years of development, if not more.

These guys are cutting to the chase and aren't diluting the project goals. Trying to make everyone happy is usually what ruins a great product and they only intend to make 150 out of 8 billion happy so that's pretty focused.

Can't wait to see the final product.

[Tim.Wright]

Ease up there turbo, 3 years is a pretty typical development period (2015-2018). They aren't doing anything special here in terms of development speed.

I doubt the design is finalised yet either. If all the design work is done, you only need around 6 months to build a prototype.

La Ferrari definitely wasn't 5 years in the making either...

[gandharva]

For example, I´d expect some sort of active aero, apart from active suspensions....

That guy in the video a few pages ago clearly stated that the only moving part will be the rearwing. Imho this car does not need active aero. That "car" or better... monstrous diffusor, will get an active suspension for it's support and that's it I think. The real challenge is PU/cooling packaging and the gearbox.