Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[techman]

honda power is decent, much more powerful than the ferrari 2015. hockenheim will see mclaren strong again. just have a look at how thin that rear wing ofTR and they dont run any extra wings like monkey wings like mclaren, i hope mclaren does the same. TR chassis is up there with redbull for aero efficiency. Even TR can see this as they now say honda engine is more powerful than ferrari 2015.

[GoranF1]

some news from Spanish press saying Honda plans to use engine 6 and 7 in Monza(taking penalty)

[diffuser]

honda power is decent, much more powerful than the ferrari 2015. hockenheim will see mclaren strong again. just have a look at how thin that rear wing of TR and they dont run any extra wings like monkey wings like mclaren, i hope mclaren does the same. TR chassis is up there with redbull for aero efficiency. Even TR can see this as they now say honda engine is more powerful than ferrari 2015.

Now you've taken a quote from Sainz that said Honda has more power and turned it into "Much More Power".

- I hope McLaren are stronger in Germany but I have my doubts. The Merc PU will bring FI and Williams closer and maybe ahead.

Not sure why you just keep saying stuff without checking.


They clearly ran a monkey seat!! IMHO,they tend to run similar wing levels. I can show you images but I really think you should go look for them yourself.

BTW the quote I've seen is from Sainz, not from TR as a whole. Don't try to make your argument sound stronger by changing the facts.

I think the PUs are close and so are the chassis.
I think Sainz makes a comment like that to shift the blame for falling behind McLaren from the TR Chassis to the "Static" Ferrari PU, who's honour he really doesn't care to defend.

[techman]

BTW the quote I've seen is from Sainz, not from TR as a whole. Don't try to make your argument sound stronger by changing the facts.

Watch ted notebook at 8.15 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpYcjBm9RxI The TR team believes honda 2016 is more powerful than their 2015 ferrari. This is there believe and not only sainz.

As far as the monkey wing, it looks i have missed this one in hungary, but if you look at TR on power circuit previously they run incredibly lower rear wing and no monkey wings, whereas mclaren for some reason runs them. I believe mclaren should do the same as TR and i hope they do soon as they need to make it more aero efficient. the honda engine is decent and its not at the level of a mercedes or a ferrari but par with a renault and i believe in germany the result will show. i am hoping no rain. The top speed of the mclaren were pretty impressive in hungary.
cant wait.

[Pierce89]

honda power is decent, much more powerful than the ferrari 2015. hockenheim will see mclaren strong again. just have a look at how thin that rear wing ofTR and they dont run any extra wings like monkey wings like mclaren, i hope mclaren does the same. TR chassis is up there with redbull for aero efficiency. Even TR can see this as they now say honda engine is more powerful than ferrari 2015.

Sainz said the Honda was roughly the same as his 2015 Ferrari, not better. As an aside TR's wings aren't any more trimmed out than Mclaren's.

[diffuser]

BTW the quote I've seen is from Sainz, not from TR as a whole. Don't try to make your argument sound stronger by changing the facts.

Watch ted notebook at 8.15 min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpYcjBm9RxI The TR team believes honda 2016 is more powerful than their 2015 ferrari. This is there believe and not only sainz.

As far as the monkey wing, it looks i have missed this one in hungary, but if you look at TR on power circuit previously they run incredibly lower rear wing and no monkey wings, whereas mclaren for some reason runs them. I believe mclaren should do the same as TR and i hope they do soon as they need to make it more aero efficient. the honda engine is decent and its not at the level of a mercedes or a ferrari but par with a renault and i believe in germany the result will show. i am hoping no rain. The top speed of the mclaren were pretty impressive in hungary.
cant wait.

OK, that is reported by Ted. I still think they're defending their chassis by moving blame to their PU or in this case flattering the opponents PU.

I don't agree with your assessment of the Renault PU in relation to the Ferrari and Honda. I think the current Renault and Ferrari are close with Ferrari having a strong edge. The Honda is still waaaaaaaaaaaaaay back. By Honda's own admission they are.

[diffuser]

honda power is decent, much more powerful than the ferrari 2015. hockenheim will see mclaren strong again. just have a look at how thin that rear wing ofTR and they dont run any extra wings like monkey wings like mclaren, i hope mclaren does the same. TR chassis is up there with redbull for aero efficiency. Even TR can see this as they now say honda engine is more powerful than ferrari 2015.

Sainz said the Honda was roughly the same as his 2015 Ferrari, not better. As an aside TR's wings aren't any more trimmed out than Mclaren's.

I don't understand what you mean by "trimmed out"?

[godlameroso]

Less wing angle. Anyway, about the engine, so I guess the upgrade is for Monza and not for Spa. Which means they've already designed and tested the upgrade in an experiment, now it's down to manufacturing and testing on the dyno before finally putting it in the car. They're definitely pushing the timing of this very aggressively, they must have been working on this since Barcelona at least. In a way I'm a little disappointed that they can't introduce the upgrade in Spa, on the other hand it'll be a good way to validate their upgrade, on back to back power circuits. Also, totally understandable given how long it actually takes to implement large changes to the power unit.

TJI technology has existed in the lab since 2010(when the technical papers were published), so it wasn't exactly new when Ferrari introduced it on their car. Makes you wonder if the technology has existed for a decent while, why it's never shown up in a road car. I guess if you're making decent change with things being as they are, you have no incentive to add more cost to your production. In this race environment the priorities are different there's no compromises on performance or profit margins, all of these teams are essentially black holes for cash and operate as such. With that in mind, it's actually the perfect place to try hare-brained schemes, provided your brain to hare ratio is more towards the brain side(can't afford to waste time after-all).

[PlatinumZealot]

honda power is decent, much more powerful than the ferrari 2015. hockenheim will see mclaren strong again. just have a look at how thin that rear wing ofTR and they dont run any extra wings like monkey wings like mclaren, i hope mclaren does the same. TR chassis is up there with redbull for aero efficiency. Even TR can see this as they now say honda engine is more powerful than ferrari 2015.

Sainz said the Honda was roughly the same as his 2015 Ferrari, not better. As an aside TR's wings aren't any more trimmed out than Mclaren's.

He said that before Silverstone... but now after Hungary they believe the Honda is slightly better.

[Pierce89]

honda power is decent, much more powerful than the ferrari 2015. hockenheim will see mclaren strong again. just have a look at how thin that rear wing ofTR and they dont run any extra wings like monkey wings like mclaren, i hope mclaren does the same. TR chassis is up there with redbull for aero efficiency. Even TR can see this as they now say honda engine is more powerful than ferrari 2015.

Sainz said the Honda was roughly the same as his 2015 Ferrari, not better. As an aside TR's wings aren't any more trimmed out than Mclaren's.

He said that before Silverstone... but now after Hungary they believe the Honda is slightly better.

Well all slagged Honda to begin with but it seems that they've finally begun to show that they're improving and quickly. They still have a long way to go, though. The chassis is definitely still better than the PU, and it's been able to carry them to a certain extent(meaning they're beating cars that have much faster PUs).

[PlatinumZealot]

Yes. And to believe I was being slagged off in the McLaren team thread for saying the chassis is good.

[techman]

The Honda is still waaaaaaaaaaaaaay back. By Honda's own admission they are.

honda have always said their target is mercedes, and yes they say there is a gap to mercedes, they never said they are below other likes renault. which i think are equal in terms to renault. if mclaren had a redbull chassis, you would have not blame on the engine, unfortunately there is no benchmark chassis for the honda because there is only one team at the moment. just look at the work renault. why are they behind mclaren,? infact there top speed is even lower than redbull, and remember they run same engine. thats call aero efficiency, that redbull chassis is given fantastic aero efficiency compared to renault chassis. mclaren size zero concept is still a developing concept and need more time to mature and i hope there aero effciency will improve quickly.

ted is a reliable sky f1 reporter and he gets information from all teams after the race , clearly as you can seee, the TR now realize as a team their 2015 engine cant cope with honda engine, thus making them run low wing.

[Thunder]

ted is a reliable sky f1 reporter ....

This made my Day, and it's only 7:30am.

[gruntguru]

ted is a reliable sky f1 reporter ....

This made my Day, and it's only 7:30am.

Is that a contradiction? Maybe he meant "reliable" on the spectrum of Sky reporters?

[OviJohn]

so youre over here now autof1fan (techman) spreading your wisdom

Been itching to calling him out for the past weeks! Thanks =D>

Back to PU topics:

Alonsos interview on spanish radio after Hungary GP:

Asked about Hondas the future PU upgrades (The fabled 0.5 segs by the end of the year): "I believe we have to keep our self grounded. I´m hopeful we get the next step by Spa; but regardless, we will have a hard time at the venues following the summer break (Spa and Monza). Too many straights. We just have to keep ourselves focused and level headed, avoid overpromising and keep working cause we still need some catch up to do (development wise). If we eventually achieve, 0.2, 0.3, 0.5 tenths on this PU design by years end, then all the better cause thats "money in our pockets" and next years PU should have that step already covered."

Source:

https://ar.ivoox.com/es/fernando-alonso ... 159_1.html