Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[techman]

if you check which race mclaren was the closest to the mercedes team, in terms of race pace it was austria f1 gp, a power circuit and the pace of button was matching ferrari at times, and compared to hungary the gap to mercedes or top teams the race pace was not as good of button's in austria. so it looks like mclaren are good on power circuit and i expect the honda engine will deliver the performance in germany another powercircuit. hopefully no rain.

[mclaren111]

by Thunders » 26 Jul 2016, 08:38

techman wrote:
ted is a reliable sky f1 reporter ....


This made my Day, and it's only 7:30am.

Poor Ted !!

[3jawchuck]

Lets be fair to Ted here. As annoying, cringe worthy and biased as he is. He still reports what people tell him and people still tell him stuff. So in that case at least, he is reliable.

[PlatinumZealot]

so youre over here now autof1fan (techman) spreading your wisdom

Been itching to calling him out for the past weeks! Thanks =D>

Who is this user that comes into this domain unannounced?
Where does he hail from?

[diffuser]

I'm not a big fan of HP numbers down stuff (probably cause I can't get my head around it). Here it is anyways ...http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red-b ... es-802381/

Red Bull has revealed that Renault's Formula 1 engine is almost 47hp down on Mercedes - but team boss Christian Horner is confident the power gap can be closed.

[gruntguru]

I'm not a big fan of HP numbers down stuff (probably cause I can't get my head around it).

Neither am I. For starters we can't be sure which number is being compared:
- Crankshaft power
- Self sustaining power. (Crank + MGUH ->MGUK with no battery flow)
- Crank + 160 MGUK (Discharging battery)
- Balls out. (wastegate open, compressor powered from battery, 160 MGUK - Discharging battery and wasting fuel)

Secondly, we don't know how the same two PU's compare in the other modes eg Renault might be down 47 hp in self sustaning mode but only down 20 hp in balls out mode.

Thirdly, the outright power in each mode is not the total story. Fuel and electrical efficiency also have a big effect on the competitiveness of a PU. Although fuel rate in each of the above modes will be the same (100 kg/hr), the rate of charge or discharge of the ES can be different in the last two modes where turbine recovery and compressor power requirements play a significant role.

So overall, I often have a smile when I see comments comparing power levels and fuel efficiency of different PU's.

[loner]

Sainz said the Honda was roughly the same as his 2015 Ferrari, not better.

few days ago some talk about fuel upgrade in spa hopefully will have a factor against TR, FI , WILLIAMS.
if no ICE upgrade in spa

[diffuser]

if you check which race mclaren was the closest to the mercedes team, in terms of race pace it was austria f1 gp, a power circuit and the pace of button was matching ferrari at times, and compared to hungary the gap to mercedes or top teams the race pace was not as good of button's in austria. so it looks like mclaren are good on power circuit and i expect the honda engine will deliver the performance in germany another powercircuit. hopefully no rain.

Depends on what you're comparing. if you compare fastest laps:
1:24.958 for FA and 1:23.849 for Ham at Hungry- GAP 1.1
1:10.001 for JB and 1:08.411 for Ham at Austria - GAP 1.5

I think the fastest laps don't mean anything, really with race pace you need to very careful what conclusions you draw from them. There is always a race within a race. Race pace is easier to compare when the cars are together on the track. The more cars you put between them the more difficult it is to compare the paces and the less meaning full the data.

For example at Hungry FA knew he couldn't catch the cars in front. Add to that it's hard to pass in Hungry, you know he's not driving flat out. What % of flat out was he running ?? you're guess is as good as mine. Pretty sure Hamilton wasn't driving flat out either. What % of flat out was he running ?? no clue ...too many unknowns to draw any conclusions.

[maguetox]

Sainz said the Honda was roughly the same as his 2015 Ferrari, not better.

few days ago some talk about fuel upgrade in spa hopefully will have a factor against TR, FI , WILLIAMS.
if no ICE upgrade in spa

If I recalled correctly everytime that and ICE upgrade was in the cards a new fuel will be available to help with the new improvements.

[loner]

Depends on what you're comparing. if you compare fastest laps:
1:24.958 for FA and 1:23.849 for Ham at Hungry- GAP 1.1
1:10.001 for JB and 1:08.411 for Ham at Austria - GAP 1.5

I think the fastest laps don't mean anything, really with race pace you need to very careful what conclusions you draw from them. There is always a race within a race. Race pace is easier to compare when the cars are together on the track. The more cars you put between them the more difficult it is to compare the paces and the less meaning full the data.

For example at Hungry FA knew he couldn't catch the cars in front. Add to that it's hard to pass in Hungry, you know he's not driving flat out. What % of flat out was he running ?? you're guess is as good as mine. Pretty sure Hamilton wasn't driving flat out either. What % of flat out was he running ?? no clue ...too many unknowns to draw any conclusions.

yes for example gap between alonso and sainz was pretty much 4.5 sec
then suddenly 8 sec , 2 laps later stayed at 3.5 sec till the end when alonso sided him self 1 meter away from track limit
i was like whats going on 4.5 to 8 to 3.5

[godlameroso]

if you check which race mclaren was the closest to the mercedes team, in terms of race pace it was austria f1 gp, a power circuit and the pace of button was matching ferrari at times, and compared to hungary the gap to mercedes or top teams the race pace was not as good of button's in austria. so it looks like mclaren are good on power circuit and i expect the honda engine will deliver the performance in germany another powercircuit. hopefully no rain.

Depends on what you're comparing. if you compare fastest laps:
1:24.958 for FA and 1:23.849 for Ham at Hungry- GAP 1.1
1:10.001 for JB and 1:08.411 for Ham at Austria - GAP 1.5

I think the fastest laps don't mean anything, really with race pace you need to very careful what conclusions you draw from them. There is always a race within a race. Race pace is easier to compare when the cars are together on the track. The more cars you put between them the more difficult it is to compare the paces and the less meaning full the data.

For example at Hungry FA knew he couldn't catch the cars in front. Add to that it's hard to pass in Hungry, you know he's not driving flat out. What % of flat out was he running ?? you're guess is as good as mine. Pretty sure Hamilton wasn't driving flat out either. What % of flat out was he running ?? no clue ...too many unknowns to draw any conclusions.

At the end of the race when the fuel is low, and you're bored in the cockpit, and you have a good amount of battery power stored, you can let loose. A lot of drivers set their fastest laps towards the end of the race. Fast laps at the end of the race on similarly worn rubber are a good indication of ultimate pace.

[techman]

Depends on what you're comparing. if you compare fastest laps:
1:24.958 for FA and 1:23.849 for Ham at Hungry- GAP 1.1
1:10.001 for JB and 1:08.411 for Ham at Austria - GAP 1.5

A single fast lap does not mean the race pace is very good.

look at the gap jenson finished the race to the winner in a power circuit like Austria it was 37.706 sec
and look a the gap alonso finished in hungary , he was 1lap down to the leader hamilton. the race pace of jenson was fantastic. one single fast lap does not mean his race pace is fantastic.
if you want proof here is the linkhttp://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-gp-editio ... rand-prix/
in hungary gap http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-gp-editio ... rand-prix/

[Pierce89]

if you check which race mclaren was the closest to the mercedes team, in terms of race pace it was austria f1 gp, a power circuit and the pace of button was matching ferrari at times, and compared to hungary the gap to mercedes or top teams the race pace was not as good of button's in austria. so it looks like mclaren are good on power circuit and i expect the honda engine will deliver the performance in germany another powercircuit. hopefully no rain.

If you've read anything on McLaren's current areo philosophy, you would've expected them to be strong at Austria. With the Honda they've specifically gone for efficiency with no dirty down force. Even in Monaco, they went with a low drag setup, because they didn't want to interrupt their development in that direction to make a Monaco package. That's why I laugh at people who point at Monaco and claim that McLaren has a terrible chassis that is disguising a good Honda PU.

[Strax]

Depends on what you're comparing. if you compare fastest laps:
1:24.958 for FA and 1:23.849 for Ham at Hungry- GAP 1.1
1:10.001 for JB and 1:08.411 for Ham at Austria - GAP 1.5

A single fast lap does not mean the race pace is very good.

look at the gap jenson finished the race to the winner in a power circuit like Austria it was 37.706 sec
and look a the gap alonso finished in hungary , he was 1lap down to the leader hamilton. the race pace of jenson was fantastic. one single fast lap does not mean his race pace is fantastic.
if you want proof here is the linkhttp://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-gp-editio ... rand-prix/
in hungary gap http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-gp-editio ... rand-prix/

Have you adjusted above times for the Safety car??

In any case, Hasegawa repeatedly had said that they are down on power, high on consumption, why argue with him?

[techman]

In any case, Hasegawa repeatedly had said that they are down on power, high on consumption, why argue with him?

hasegawa said they are down on power to mercedes and that their target. not renault.