Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[PlatinumZealot]

Remove the mercedes times and use that time to tenth.

Anyway. My two cents on this. Honda can indeed produce their own version of TJI if the want to. There is no specific patent that can prevent Honda from making a similar system because similar systems have been in use for years.
Do not be surprised if Honda say screw it all and commision MAHLE to do a design for them. All the better for both parties. Quicker the dyno that way.

[PhillipM]

I'd be very surprised if they did, that's not the usual Honda way of doing things at all.

[godlameroso]

Unlike Ferrari, Honda has the facilities, and technical capabilities of designing their own system. At this point, I don't doubt for a second that they hired outside help to guide them. You have to understand, however, that Honda loves it's intellectual property, for them it's a matter of pride, so this hurts. That's like having a professional painter pay someone who specializes in painting bridges to just paint a bridge on their masterpiece. Sometimes you just have to swallow your pride to move forward, accept your ignorance, learn from it, and pick yourself back up.

I have a good feeling about the upgrade, it may take them a race or two to fully exploit it, but I'm certain it's a nice step forward. I wouldn't be surprised if Honda engineers are high fiving each other.

[mrluke]

This is the last time I do this cause I've done it before ..here are pictures from Baku. If you look at the bottom half of the rear wing only McLaren, STR and RBR aren't running any bottom rear wing (the lower part is angled such that the front part is almost level to the rear and therefore doesn't capture any air).

The air that is not "captured" by the bit you cannot see is instead captured by the bit that hides the first bit from sight.

Regardless of the shape of foremost element of the rear wing, without reducing frontal area it is very unlikely that drag is reduced.

Back on topic,

Everything I have read about Honda says that they will want to work out it out themselves so that their staff gain the understanding of the technology rather than paying a subcontractor to produce the answer for them.

[DarkAlman]

I keep reading in the news Eric Boullier saying things like "We now have the same amount of raw horsepower as Ferrari" or "The energy recovery is now on par with so and so" or some such. But since that don't have access to the dyno data of the other teams do they get an approximate number by comparing the sector lap times of different teams?

If they do have similar HP numbers is the fuel consumption the Honda engines achilles heel at the moment?
Is that down to combustion at high RPM on the straights? IE do they have to burn more fuel to make up for less overall HP?

Or is the engine not as good at saving fuel on the lower power band?
Are they having to burn fuel to spool up the turbo? ie Hot blowing?

or is it a combination of everything?

[gruntguru]

Doubt if anyone is hot blowing. Very inefficient and not necessary with MGUH available for spooling up.

[PhillipM]

You might for harvesting though.

[Sasha]

For people asking if Honda would use Mahle injectors.....Honda's partner with Di and ER is Marelli.

[Craigy]

But since that don't have access to the dyno data of the other teams do they get an approximate number by comparing the sector lap times of different teams?

The sector time data the teams have is different from that supplied to the TV viewing masses via FOM's world feed.

As well as the 3 official FOM sectors and the speed trap joe public sees, the F1 teams have "sector" times once every 200m all the way round each track.
With this they can measure things like the acceleration at various points along a straight (eg. Spa/Kemmel) for each car, for each lap. There will be databases of this for every competitor going back years.
The teams can tell the average speed in each corner using the granular sector data, and use that to calculate apex speeds and with information from their own data on tyres, can establish fairly accurate extrapolations of their competitor's downforce numbers, drag numbers and so on.

They've been doing this sort of stuff for a long time and are very good at it.

The big teams are all data-driven. They know what they are competing against.

[Craigy]

For people asking if Honda would use Mahle injectors.....Honda's partner with Di and ER is Marelli.

Interesting. They are a sponsor of Ferrari.

Source?

[godlameroso]

I think they make the MGU-K and H for Ferrari as well.

[godlameroso]

For people asking if Honda would use Mahle injectors.....Honda's partner with Di and ER is Marelli.

That is interesting, are Honda giving Marelli specs for manufacturing, is it a joint venture? Or are Marelli merely a supplier?

[Sasha]

Honda specs/Marelli help/Marelli made

[gruntguru]

You might for harvesting though.

Not necessary. Much more efficient to generate using the piston engine driving the MGUK.

[FW17]

Honda gas no experience in hot or cold blowing while the other 3engine makers had a solid 4 years of race experience to carry over from there NA engines.

When and where they use it is debatable but this is something that Honda is missing.