Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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"Besides, when we bring the actual thing to circuit to run it on real environment, whole set of new facts that cannot be known by simulation only arise, then we clear these one by one to raise the level of ourselves by one stage, it's a repeat of this process."

Amen brotha'

"The best strength is that Honda's mechanics possess element of engineer. For example when we go back to factory, we are build engineers who conduct assembly as well. That we are able to be involved with development of productivity directly is our strength, so Honda's mechanics can do more than what a mere mechanics are supposed to do. To go even further, we'd like to make "Honda's mechanics are group of such kind" the norm. We are able to not only work on task as mechanic but also to demand "this components should be this way", I think that's what's different from others mechanics, so I consider we should strengthen and train that aspect furthermore. That might be bit too wide as a range for mechanics, but when Soichiro Honda was active there was no particular difference/boundary b/w mechanic and engineer, so that's where Honda's racing philosophy is coming from. You catch all the balls that are within your reach instead of just staying within your role. All the staff are thinking "I'll do it" is what the group called Honda is about, I think, so we'd like to value that aspect in particular."

This part really got to me because I approach things the same way.
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Edax
Edax
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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mclaren111 wrote:Autosport
Hasegawa:
"We have a huge gap to Renault. I've been surprised by their progress. They have done a very good job.

"Next year, we're aiming to achieve the level of Mercedes engine.

"At this moment, I don't know if that is possible but that is our aim."

With the engine regulations remaining stable until at least 2020, Hasegawa suggested F1 could achieve engine parity before the end of that period.

"To achieve everything the same level, still we need another two or three years," he said.

"Mercedes are also improving, but from a scientific point of view, I don't think they have much room to improve in terms of power compared to us. That is natural.

"From our analysis, their numbers are incredible.

"From an analytical point of view, their power difference hasn't changed from the beginning of the season."
I really hope we can challenge properly in 2018 [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o<
To me that sounds like hoping that the other engines will stop developing. For the ICE that might be true, but I think the electrical systems still have several years worth of development in them. If you look for instance at batteries I don't see the curve flattening soon.

IMHO they should really consider supporting a second or a third team as the feedback from the increased mileage on different cars will help them to increase their development pace.

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ME4ME
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Edax wrote: To me that sounds like hoping that the other engines will stop developing. For the ICE that might be true, but I think the electrical systems still have several years worth of development in them. If you look for instance at batteries I don't see the curve flattening soon.
I disagree entirely. I think the ICE & Turbo have more untapped potential to offer, together with further fuel development etc.
The electrical units such as the MGU-H, K and battery probably not. The battery has a lower weight limit anyway. However, the software running all these units might still be improved upon.

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PlatinumZealot
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The lithium polymer battery curve has been flat for some time with obvious limits. However,a group at MIT redesigned the oldest kind of lithium battery, the Lithium metal battery. They managed to make it safe, cool and rechargeable. It is much smaller than current lithium polymer batteries too. I can see this reborn lithium metal battery design making its way into F1 in two years.

http://news.mit.edu/2016/lithium-metal- ... onics-0817
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Racing Green in 2028

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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ME4ME wrote:
Edax wrote: To me that sounds like hoping that the other engines will stop developing. For the ICE that might be true, but I think the electrical systems still have several years worth of development in them. If you look for instance at batteries I don't see the curve flattening soon.
I disagree entirely. I think the ICE & Turbo have more untapped potential to offer, together with further fuel development etc.
The electrical units such as the MGU-H, K and battery probably not. The battery has a lower weight limit anyway. However, the software running all these units might still be improved upon.
Just because you reached minimum weight doesn't mean you can't improve capacity. You say who cares you're limited to 4MJ per lap and 120kW of power anyway, and you're right but a battery with a bigger capacity still deals with bigger charges more efficiently, less heat. You can always make a more powerful MGU-H, it's unlimited, you could potentially deploy full power for every instant you're full throttle. Also the 4MJ limit doesn't apply from the battery to the MGU-H so it makes sense to have a little extra battery capacity to have more control over the turbo.
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zac510
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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(OT apology) I'm sure the FIA will be thinking about lifting the MJ limit to 6-8 in the next year or two, to keep the companies developing the technology and bring it closer to LMP1 levels.

Joseki
Joseki
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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PlatinumZealot wrote:The lithium polymer battery curve has been flat for some time with obvious limits. However,a group at MIT redesigned the oldest kind of lithium battery, the Lithium metal battery. They managed to make it safe, cool and rechargeable. It is much smaller than current lithium polymer batteries too. I can see this reborn lithium metal battery design making its way into F1 in two years.

http://news.mit.edu/2016/lithium-metal- ... onics-0817
Isn't the minimun volume set to be written on the 2018 technical rules? :?

Joseki
Joseki
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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zac510 wrote:(OT apology) I'm sure the FIA will be thinking about lifting the MJ limit to 6-8 in the next year or two, to keep the companies developing the technology and bring it closer to LMP1 levels.
I think they should, 4 MJ seemed a big deal years ago but at Le Mans now almoest every LMP1 have double the about of energy.

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ME4ME
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godlameroso wrote:You say who cares you're limited to 4MJ per lap and 120kW of power anyway, and you're right but a battery with a bigger capacity still deals with bigger charges more efficiently, less heat.
Except I didn't said any such thing. Or is this some kind of weird usage of the word "you"? In that case add "could" or "would".

Anyway I see your point, I think it's valid, but I do not think it changes anything regarding my statement. I still think ICE+Turbo+Fuel+Software is where the majority of performance improvement will be found.

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mclaren111
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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Drivability is also still a big problem !!

fellowhoodlums
fellowhoodlums
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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When do we hear about engine token spend for Spa? No definite news yet. Spa or Monza heavily hinted but not confirmed.

I've read all the interviews etc and nothing written as guaranteed.

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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ME4ME wrote:
godlameroso wrote:You say who cares you're limited to 4MJ per lap and 120kW of power anyway, and you're right but a battery with a bigger capacity still deals with bigger charges more efficiently, less heat.
Except I didn't said any such thing. Or is this some kind of weird usage of the word "you"? In that case add "could" or "would".

Anyway I see your point, I think it's valid, but I do not think it changes anything regarding my statement. I still think ICE+Turbo+Fuel+Software is where the majority of performance improvement will be found.
I wasn't addressing you specifically, just the mind of the person reading my comments and trying to make sense of it.
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FW17
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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Joseki wrote:
zac510 wrote:(OT apology) I'm sure the FIA will be thinking about lifting the MJ limit to 6-8 in the next year or two, to keep the companies developing the technology and bring it closer to LMP1 levels.
I think they should, 4 MJ seemed a big deal years ago but at Le Mans now almoest every LMP1 have double the about of energy.
F1 does not need more than 4mj storage.

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godlameroso
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Why not, we could easily reduce the size of the fuel tank and allow more energy harvesting in a year's time.
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Chicane
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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So AMUs is claiming Ferrari, Honda and Mercedes could use tokens at Spa.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 21427.html
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