2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

[techman]

There is reasoning behind why Mclaren opted for higher downforce levels.

if u look at adrian newey, when renault had a power defecit, they always ran very skinny rear wings in spa or monza or any powercircuit just so that the cars will not get mugged in the straight, mclaren went the other ways along with williams and both of them got vulnerable to faster cars with low DF today. the ideal setup for power circut is low DF. mclaren got it wrong here hopefully they get it right in monza,

[Sayeman]

There is reasoning behind why Mclaren opted for higher downforce levels.

if u look at adrian newey, when renault had a power defecit, they always ran very skinny rear wings in spa or monza or any powercircuit just so that the cars will not get mugged in the straight, mclaren went the other ways along with williams and both of them got vulnerable to faster cars with low DF today. the ideal setup for power circut is low DF. mclaren got it wrong here hopefully they get it right in monza,

I remember Horner saying in Baku how the low Downforce setup destroyed the tires of both of their drivers in the race.
Maybe that's why Mclaren opted for the high downforce setup?
Mclaren was having terrible tire degradation issues early in the year, like in Monaco i think. So they have improved on the front too.

[Sonador]

There is reasoning behind why Mclaren opted for higher downforce levels.

if u look at adrian newey, when renault had a power defecit, they always ran very skinny rear wings in spa or monza or any powercircuit just so that the cars will not get mugged in the straight, mclaren went the other ways along with williams and both of them got vulnerable to faster cars with low DF today. the ideal setup for power circut is low DF. mclaren got it wrong here hopefully they get it right in monza,

How can you say that Mclaren were wrong with ther setup, when they finished P7 on merrit??

Maybe you can e-mail Boullier or Jost capito with your analysis of Spa?

Were you not happy yesterday with Q3, and today with Alonso's drive?
Or did you expected more from Mclaren with a low df setup?

I think next year we will see a nice competitive Mclaren Honda F1 team if they keep improving like they do.

[Sonador]

There is reasoning behind why Mclaren opted for higher downforce levels.

if u look at adrian newey, when renault had a power defecit, they always ran very skinny rear wings in spa or monza or any powercircuit just so that the cars will not get mugged in the straight, mclaren went the other ways along with williams and both of them got vulnerable to faster cars with low DF today. the ideal setup for power circut is low DF. mclaren got it wrong here hopefully they get it right in monza,

I remember Horner saying in Baku how the low Downforce setup destroyed the tires of both of their drivers in the race.
Maybe that's why Mclaren opted for the high downforce setup?
Mclaren was having terrible tire degradation issues early in the year, like in Monaco i think. So they have improved on the front too.

Also they had rear traction problems, tire deg and traction both look ok'ish now.

[godlameroso]

Honda's return seems to be mirroring their program in the mid to late 80's. Laughably slow and uncompetitive at first. 6th in the constructors the following year, followed by years of dominance. Let's see if they get the last part too.

[techman]

How can you say that Mclaren were wrong with ther setup, when they finished P7 on merrit??

spa is a circuit where u can make a good lap time with low DF, just look at redbull skinny rear wing and mercedes wing. unfortunaltey mclaren did not bring a skinny rear wing. mclaren performance could have been better with low Drag rear wing, even jenson mentioned it after qual that mclaren running more downforce. however history shows, low wing DF gives you a better lap time around spa, hopefully mclaren brings a low rear wing in monza orlese mclaren will be in trouble

no wonder william struggle to pass the mclaren on the straight, they also ran a big rear wing, causing more drag and not enought straight line speed to get into the tow.

[Alonso Fan]

'hopefully mclaren brings a low rear wing in monza orlese mclaren will be in trouble'

What do you think they are? School kids? And how do you know that McLaren's higher downforce package was slower than their low downforce package at spa? Have you got any data to prove it? Or is it some more armchair analysis?

Btw, Monza and spa are different tracks, completely different. Monza is out and out low drag, mo question about it. So this results in low downforce configs. Spa requires low drag in some areas and high/medium downforce in some. Different teams choose which one they favour based on where their strengths and weaknesses are

To add to that, may I reiterate what has already been mentioned a few posts back, that the higher downforce config may have helped a lot with tyre life etc

[Juzh]

no wonder william struggle to pass the mclaren on the straight, they also ran a big rear wing, causing more drag and not enought straight line speed to get into the tow.

Williams' problem towards the end of the race was abysmal middle sector pace (even with the massive wing) and so they simply couldn't sufficiently close up on the mclaren to start whoring the slipstream. Their straight line speed wasn't a problem.

[daren_p]

I have been a regular reader of these forums (mostly a McLaren/Honda thread reader) for the past couple years but haven't felt the need to post & have learned lots of great info. See more recently "techman" has been spreading his wisdom on these forums. For those that don't follow autosport.com, he was a member of those forums under the name "autof1fan". Its not hard to figure out their the same person as he's now carrying on posting the same nonsense he posted over & over again on the other forums.

For those that are trying to correct his info, I'm afraid your fighting a losing battle. If interested, here is some info he posted earlier in the season as to why McLarens areo is bad:

http://forums.autosport.com/topic/20194 ... ?p=7511164

I'll let members decide for themselves if there is any point in replying to his posts. At one point earlier in the season (few months back now), he went as far as saying the Honda PU is in the same group as the 2016 Ferrari PU for performance.

[techman]

To add to that, may I reiterate what has already been mentioned a few posts back, that the higher downforce config may have helped a lot with tyre life etc

tyre llfe degradation has many factors, one of which is suspension settingg. redbull ran a skinny wing in spa but they ended up in 2nd place in race. adding drag mean is costing straight line speed and it is very important in a track like spa and monza.i am hoping mclaren bring a very skinny wing to monza, i want them to do well. hopefully no rain, so we can determine where the team is now currently.

I'll let members decide for themselves if there is any point in replying to his posts. At one point earlier in the season (few months back now), he went as far as saying the Honda PU is in the same group as the 2016 Ferrari PU for performance.

i am not anyone you are mentioning, i am giving my point of view of the current mclaren honda performance. as far as i said 2016 honda s equal to 2016 ferrari? i never said that in this forum, if you want ask the f1technical forum member, dont spread you rumours

[daren_p]

To add to that, may I reiterate what has already been mentioned a few posts back, that the higher downforce config may have helped a lot with tyre life etc

tyre llfe degradation has many factors, one of which is suspension settingg. redbull ran a skinny wing in spa but they ended up in 2nd place in race. adding drag mean is costing straight line speed and it is very important in a track like spa and monza.i am hoping mclaren bring a very skinny wing to monza, i want them to do well. hopefully no rain, so we can determine where the team is now currently.

I'll let members decide for themselves if there is any point in replying to his posts. At one point earlier in the season (few months back now), he went as far as saying the Honda PU is in the same group as the 2016 Ferrari PU for performance.

i am not anyone you are mentioning, i am giving my point of view of the current mclaren honda performance. as far as i said 2016 honda s equal to 2016 ferrari? i never said that in this forum, if you want ask the f1technical forum member, dont spread you rumours

Well if this isn't the case, I apologize but there seems to be a very large coincidence that as soon as autof1fan stopped posting on autosport, you popped up here carrying on with basically the exact same content, right down to the grammar/punctuation. Guess other members can make up their own mind.

As for McLarens DF level, how as a casual observer can you make any judgement call on their downforce levels & what is right or wrong? I did read in one of the FP's JB did try the lower DF level & it didn't work for him. Do you not think if McLaren thought it would bring lap time they would give it another go/stick with it?

With lower DF, sure they might have gained some on the straights but I'm assuming the cars that would be around them (ie Merc customer teams) would still be quicker in a straight line. At least with the higher DF Alonso was able to pull a one second gap a lot of the time in S2 to be far enough a head to prevent DRS activation from teams behind. If they were running less DF, this might have not been the case & the cars behind would have actually been able to take better advantage on the straight as they would have DRS & would have been closer at the start of the straight.

I think McLaren did probably make a bad call with the high DF in Canada (likely hoping for rain) but as a casual observer, don't think most can make calls on if it was the best setup or not.

As for Monza, I'm sure they'll bring a low drag setup as this is basically a requirement for that track. Do you not remember the rear wing MCH brought last year:

[Alonso Fan]

Thanks daren_p

Techman, again, you mention that tyre life has many factors. I agree. One of them is how much the car slides around. More downforce=less sliding (generally)

Yet you fail to realise that there are also many factors that contribute to red bull being second, and McLaren being 7th. It's not just the wings you know, there are other, well documented factors

I dont know what you think of McLaren engineers. You must think they're dumb to doubt them bringing low downforce wings to monza. What will you be saying after monza? 'oooh, I hope they bring a high downforce config for Singapore '

[godlameroso]

Tire life is much less of an issue at Monza as there are fewer consecutive high speed turns. It's an easy two stopper going SS SS M, or a one stopper going S M if you start p11+ even with a 40c+ degree track temperature. Next weekend is going to be more or less the same as Spa this weekend, got a chance of rain on Sunday(bit more likely than this weekend), clear on Friday and Saturday.

[techman]

As for McLarens DF level, how as a casual observer can you make any judgement call on their downforce levels & what is right or wrong? I did read in one of the FP's JB did try the lower DF level & it didn't work for him. Do you not think if McLaren thought it would bring lap time they would give it another go/stick with it?

its an easy comparision when you look at it visually both mclaren and william have a bigger rear wing here in spa and compare that to redbull and mercedes anyway here is the link where jenson talking about more DF in post qualy. no wonder william struggle to overtake and got overtaking by others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMWn-gIXdEs check 1.20 mark . i wish mclaren chassis/aero could be bit more efficient. they are getting there , and hoping it happens quickly

[daren_p]

As for McLarens DF level, how as a casual observer can you make any judgement call on their downforce levels & what is right or wrong? I did read in one of the FP's JB did try the lower DF level & it didn't work for him. Do you not think if McLaren thought it would bring lap time they would give it another go/stick with it?

its an easy comparision when you look at it visually both mclaren and william have a bigger rear wing here in spa and compare that to redbull and mercedes anyway here is the link where jenson talking about more DF in post qualy. no wonder william struggle to overtake and got overtaking by others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMWn-gIXdEs check 1.20 mark . i wish mclaren chassis/aero could be bit more efficient. they are getting there , and hoping it happens quickly

While I am by no means an aero expert, I'm afraid it a little more complicated then that. So by looking at the DRS flap you've figured out MCH are running more DF then RB or Mercedes? For starters, their main planes are typically very different between them all so looking at the DRS flap doesn't tell the whole story. On top of that, that tells us nothing about the complete aero package on the rest of the car. Both Mercedes & Renault make more power, so in general they could be running more DF & drag compared to MCH. As an example Redbull trimming out or running less rear wing may still be the same overall drag/DF as MCH higher DF package. As a casual observer, you won't know this.

Again, not an expert but Mercedes lower DF spa package probably still produced more DF & drag then the "higher DF" package MCH ran.