Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[namao]

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 2884371456 The next (and last) upgrade for Honda will be at Austin (3 tokens) for ICE.

[Sayeman]

Mercedes PU is the best, but they´ve also struggled at many starts. People usually say that´s due to the clutch but, may be possible that their electric motor/setup is optimized for higher revs what makes them struggle at the starts?

Just look at this horrendous start from hamilton here. /s

https://youtu.be/ChTPzkW9VQo?t=5s

Yeah Mercedes starts are better than Manor, Renault and Sauber... you proved me wrong!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4POGsCda_c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaiJ12YJc3A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQch7B0WXOY

Mercs turned to Daimler to sort their start issues...
Don't think it has anything to do with the PUs.

[Juzh]

Mercedes PU is the best, but they´ve also struggled at many starts. People usually say that´s due to the clutch but, may be possible that their electric motor/setup is optimized for higher revs what makes them struggle at the starts?

Just look at this horrendous start from hamilton here. /s

https://youtu.be/ChTPzkW9VQo?t=5s

Yeah Mercedes starts are better than Manor, Renault and Sauber... you proved me wrong!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4POGsCda_c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaiJ12YJc3A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQch7B0WXOY

Drivers errors/bad start procedure. There's nothing to suggest merc PU is in any way responsible for some of their bad starts. But then again, if you go and look you will find some bad starts from any driver.

[GoranF1]

can Honda extract more power from SPA update by software optimization in Monza,Singapoure...?

[gianluca.mateo]

can Honda extract more power from SPA update by software optimization in Monza,Singapoure...?

Yes. Question is how much.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[godlameroso]

can Honda extract more power from SPA update by software optimization in Monza,Singapoure...?

Yes. Question is how much.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

There's probably a nice amount of drivability they can improve, under braking and out of corners for instance, better throttle response, there's a lot that can improve particularly under trail braking, where and how the MGU-K starts harvesting. Which is essentially braking with the rear wheels, as in brake steer. Ensuring that the engine delivers power predictably and smoothly as well as the electric motors is something that can always be improved. Not to mention any other systems on the car that depend on the power unit, such as the drive train, and other "stuff" that may or may not exist.

Not to mention, there's always stupidly simple things to consider like ignition timing, and the fuel map. Common practice is to start conservatively with a base map, and evolve it from the real life contingencies you encounter. You never just tune the engine on a dyno and call it a day. So first step is to get data, then you make slight adjustments based on the data, in order to "creep" towards the practical limit. It's basic GMP man. It's not easy to do many tests when you've only had one car running for most of the weekend. Alonso's times were strangely monotonic, always stayed within 1:55-1:54(which is strange when you consider you usually gain a second every stop for new tires) for all but one or two laps, this is a decent baseline, at it's maximum potential he may have stayed firmly in the 54's but the cars ahead had more pace still.

I hope both cars finish this weekend without incident, not only will this data help fine tune the power unit, where possibly another .2-.3 is hidden, but will also help guide development of the final upgrade. Being 3 tokens I'm assuming it's mark 2 of their trick injector setup.

[daren_p]

At one point earlier in the season Hasegawa said they gained ~.3 just on software optimization, so I would imagine there is still some time to be found as they start to dial in everything better as well as start to push systems closer to their limits.

[ollandos]

alonso say the pace on spa it was limit by the target to stuck massa behind to hold ferraris ....he give drs to massa ...on first stind it was very close with FI (hulk)

[PlatinumZealot]

Optimizing the software brings a whole lot because the Power unit's energy management is programmed to the track being raced on. How it harvest, deploys, the throttle response etc. The peak power is more or less whatever they can squeeze out on the dyno, but the dynamics of drive ability and energy management is tuned to each circuit. They turn the wick up if things look good after some laps.

[Andres125sx]

Just look at this horrendous start from hamilton here. /s

https://youtu.be/ChTPzkW9VQo?t=5s

Yeah Mercedes starts are better than Manor, Renault and Sauber... you proved me wrong!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4POGsCda_c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaiJ12YJc3A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQch7B0WXOY

Drivers errors/bad start procedure. There's nothing to suggest merc PU is in any way responsible for some of their bad starts. But then again, if you go and look you will find some bad starts from any driver.

Yes there is, or there was as lately their starts are consistently better.

But when top drivers make a mistake repeatedly, a mistake they usually have not done with previous cars, that´s all you need to know there´s something wrong with the car. Specially when both drivers are involved, sometimes even at same start

[PhillipM]

No there isn't, they've said themselves its a clutch problem since the rules change to a single stage clutch - before that they had great starts.

Besides. off-topic.

[Andres125sx]

Still a problem of the car, not a driver mistake as stated

[HPD]

McLaren surprised with good electrical power
The surprise is the McLaren-Honda. The car with the weakest engine was on the first practice the fourth force in Monza. Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button drove to the places 7 and 10. Even in Spa McLaren had the enemy surprised. Power lines have lost their fear.The reason for the good shape is to look at Honda.

Alonso and Button say in unison: "We are already the best in the release of Electric Power." Show GPS data. No one can get as long as electric power Honda. "Now we just need to find power of the internal combustion engine without us compromising our electric power. And that is the supreme art, "said team boss Eric Boullier.

Force India is still one of the teams who are looking for the perfect balance. If only once a year, the high-speed wing come to the car, all have difficulties with the setup. "The car does everything. We have understeer and oversteer. And no reasonable top speed, "complained Nico Hulkenberg.

Teammate Sergio Perez also sees a lot of work to do: "At the moment McLaren and Williams are even better than we. This could be a hard case. The balance is also different depending on the tire compound and fuel charge. "

AMUS: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 30299.html

[Brian Coat]

Optimizing the software brings a whole lot because the Power unit's energy management is programmed to the track being raced on. How it harvest, deploys, the throttle response etc. The peak power is more or less whatever they can squeeze out on the dyno, but the dynamics of drive ability and energy management is tuned to each circuit. They turn the wick up if things look good after some laps.

Why wouldn't you look to optimise much of that on a whole-powertrain dynamic dyno with models of each circuit and enjoy the benefits as early as possible?

[Roostfactor]

Optimizing the software brings a whole lot because the Power unit's energy management is programmed to the track being raced on. How it harvest, deploys, the throttle response etc. The peak power is more or less whatever they can squeeze out on the dyno, but the dynamics of drive ability and energy management is tuned to each circuit. They turn the wick up if things look good after some laps.

Why wouldn't you look to optimise much of that on a whole-powertrain dynamic dyno with models of each circuit and enjoy the benefits as early as possible?

I would think "IF" Honda currently has that capability, then they surely do exactly as you suggest to give them a ballpark estimate map to work with. Of course once the physical car is on track the mapping will have to be adjusted to driver input, temp, humidity, tires, fuel load, downforce, etc. As stated earlier in this thread, dyno can only simulate so much. When you get on track and compare actual "car on track" data to sim data then you adjust car maps for current conditions and then send the data to the dyno personnel to input into their system for more accurate future dyno simulations.