Plug in hybrid project

[flynfrog]

No problem, that´s why I´m here to hear suggestions from you guys

All parts are extruded aluminum, you just need the glue and a clean room to glue the things together in...

Now off course carbon-fiber is superior and I would like to use it sooooooo much but with the supply crysis and everything

In your oppinion how much would it cost
-aluminium+tooling
-carbon fiber+tooling or what would be the diference between both?

I have no idea on actual numbers but for metal looing you have to have metal tools that are expensive to machine and metal extrusions are also not the cheapest tooling in the world usually many 10s of thousands of dollars each.

with composties you start by maching a plug out of foam it can be machined much cheaper and faster. you then full a mold off of this using fiberglass or carbon.

look at the trend aviation is heading they are getting away from metal and heading towaords composties


as far fea i am no expert but it can be done where core and plies are modeled or you do testing and just tell each cell what its properties are.

[Carlos]

Here is an article that offers some specifics on making a carbon fiber chassis. The site also has an index of articles related to CF.

http://www.solarnavigator.net/composite ... g_cars.htm

[checkered]

Can't remember whether

this has come up previously. I'll just post it "just in case". If you want a reference project to your 3Wheeler, there's a plans-built vehicle called the "Vortex". It's been around for like 17 years or so, but at least the plans (12 17″X22″ Drawing sheets and 85pg. manual) have been available for $90 online. Look into it, perhaps worth the investment and some further research into people who have actually built the thing. With luck, the plans are still available.





www.vortexplans.com

[tomislavp4]

I finally got the regulations concerning 3-wheelers Unfortunatly there are few things that nedd change in dimensions, headlights, reflex marks and those things so now I must go back to my scetches and make them look as good as posible with their dimensions altered....

Thanks checkered, for the link I´ll consider buying one of those plans in the future it looks pretty "out of the box" for that time

[Conceptual]

I would suggest Lithium Polymer batteries over Lithium Ion, and doesnt mounting the motors in the wheels increase sprung weight, and thus drivability of the car?

I like what I have seen so far, although I am a recent convert to the Hydristor and a 50hp petrol engine turning a hydraulic pump, driving a hydraulic drive motor with a hydristor for gearing..

But then again, I'm crazy!

Chris

[tomislavp4]

Good to hear you like it

"doesnt mounting the motors in the wheels increase sprung weight, and thus drivability of the car?"
well it does icrease the unsprung weight of the wheel but if you look at the pros/cons it´s worth it
-for
no need for gearbox (minimizing weight&energy loss in the transmission)
the motor is used as brake (minimizing weight even more)
clever use of space (leaving more place for battery cells)
-against
increased sprung weight over conventional designs (about 20-25kg heavier) Get my point

Now have this in mind, I´m 16 so you can tell that I don´t have the budget to start anything yet I´m just planning a car that I´m going to build when I get a good job. I plan to buy the batteries last, after most of the car is done, that way I can choose the best ones on the market...

[checkered]

Here's something

different. No, I'm not suggesting you go this way in your plans (not very sporty), but the thingy got me in a good mood as anything a bit to the kooky side seems to do. Presenting Aptera, Typ-1. Looks vaguely like something that has escaped from an '80's SciFi show. "Take me to your leader. Pleeeze." Expect to see Hollywood eco-cognoscenti driving around in these (and a couple flattened by the gubernator's biodiesel Hummers).


Image linked from oneworldnews.

[tomislavp4]

Yeah, they want to sell it for 30000$ I think... It´s a good concept but not sporty enough like you said It weights only 380kg

[checkered]

I was looking

into something completely else and once again found something that I have to post "just in case". I was looking into powertrains and somehow ended up in a page called "Reversetrike" - not a search term I would've thought of, but it seems to be a pretty comprehensive resource. Not very pretty, but that's really not a consideration. Perhaps especially beneficial to you: They list homebuilt projects i.e. people who are most likely to comment and share experiences (I expect businesses are less likely to share trade secrets).

Reversetrike, Worldwide Club for 2F1R Reverse Trike design motorcycles - link

The site also discusses the advantages of "2F1R" design, has a link to a three wheeler Yahoo! discussion group and has a sort of a "reverse" trike design database (i.e. you can go and see pictures of other trike designs, most links don't seem to be too technical).

[Carlos]

[IMG:485:314]http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9835/31668246lc1.png[/img]
Aptera's Original Design Concept

[IMG:640:406]http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/1671 ... 324ax3.jpg[/img]
Tilting Suspension 3 Wheel Vehicle - Rear View

[IMG:640:450]http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2509 ... 212zb6.jpg[/img]
Front View

[IMG:640:478]http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/9937 ... 263av6.jpg[/img]
Front Suspension Details

[IMG:599:670]http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/5470 ... 365ni8.jpg[/img]

Exploded Front View

The illustrations are really lovely when - Clicked Large

[tomislavp4]

Thanks both of you
That page looks quite interesting...

I´m not planning my car to tilt, I dont know, I just don´t like it
from what I see
-tilting vehicle would offer better latheral grip in curves with smaller wheels and less downforce making the vehicle more efficient but
-the tilting mechanism would take some space (in my case battery space) and add weight + like i said, I don´t like it...

[Carlos]

There's new battery developments on the horizon tomislavp4

Literally treated paper. A battery consisting of nanotubes and a salt coating acting as an electrolyte covering a sheet of cellulose that performs as an electron storage medium with enough energy potential to power vehicles. Super-capacitors can also be produced using the technology - It's in the lab stage but production methods are under consideration.

http://www.whatsnextnetwork.com/technol ... r#comments

Are you still interested in the Bugatti silhouette? I have found a 3 wheel vehicle that shares styling elements I could post.

[checkered]

One battery company

I've been following is A123 Systems (link). It will launch a $10.000 HEV to PHEV conversion pack next year, with production vehicle applications in 2009 (Saturn Vue, Chevy Volt). Business-wise, the company is pretty far along, having raised $132M capital from the likes of GE, Proctor&Gamble, Qualcomm etc. so I think availability won't be a problem in a few years' time.

Their current vehicle battery design is approximately suitcase-size. PHEVs are projected to get 174mpg on average with it. They've made some universally recognised breakthroughs in LILON technology, using nanophosphate layers that has lead to "miniaturiasation" (well, it's still a suitcase ...) and a drastic reduction in "classic" risks such as unreliability and flammability. Plus it's supposed to be quick to recharge.

Edit: It might be worth contacting these sorts of companies that already have some product volume, but are seeking positive publicity. You might get freebie components. Giving away a $10K battery might well be worth two-three articles in industry magazines and websites about "a young guy designing and building his own EV and our company being nice enough to help".

[tomislavp4]

Yes, the batteries I wrote about earlier (the cylinder ones) were the A123 devolopers kit so I´m quite familiar with it

Kokam is also on my list, they make Lithium Polymers check http://www.kokam.com/english/product/battery_main.html for tech PDF´s

AltairNano claims superior safety and many recharges http://www.altairnano.com/markets_energy_systems.html

So there are quite a few batteries I have on my mind and new technologies are poping out every day, thanks Carlos

About the sponsorship idea checkered, if I had the budget for the rest of the vehicle at this moment I´m sure they would give me atleast some kind of a discount and maybe like you said give it for free.
The problem is, I dont so I can´t just write to them telling that I´m going to build a vehicle in the future and that I need a free batery pack sounds ridiculous...

Maybe IF I (at this moment) make the CAD model, test it and prove it´s up to the job of getting close to let´s say the R8 or the Gallardo on track, I could get the battery pack + some discount on the motor from PML and maybe few extra $ to get the thing done from someone interested in production-just a thought

[Carlos]

[IMG:640:338]http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4760 ... 333ro2.jpg[/img]
A 3 wheel -vehicles that 'echoes' the Bugatti