Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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bobobaba wrote:
Brian Coat wrote:
So they may need a big combustion system upgrade and a comletely new MGU-H set-up, which sounds like a 2017 deal?

What do people think?
Very often I think Honda should have spent this huge amount of F1 money to support, develop the european distributors, train sales teams,teach business intelligence, use more effective marketing, etc. to increase Honda market share in EU. New Civic stands at the door and it will be unsuccessful in spite of the good product . As we saw many many many times in Honda products.

On the other hand I love to see Honda in the F1 where highest level engineering, techonolgy and pilots meet eachother. It is important to learn and I just hope that they will be the first who can apply these techologies in commercial cars.
And the race today was a clean message:there is a long way to reach the top. Hasegawa san is right:2-3 years to reach Merc level. Hope: Monza is only one track and top speed means nothing.
I think it would be better to choose Merc layout(turbo, compr) for 2017 than the traditional one. Maybe 2015 experiences help to make it compact size.

I hoped that Spa tokens brings prechamber system aand by Monza it will be a more competitive car. Not happened, and this is a big disappointment for me. I hope that end of the year will bring at least one podium.
When Honda first started, they made piston rings. Toyota rejected them because they were poor quality, but Mr.Honda didn't give up, he just tried harder. And eventually he succeeded, and this has been the Honda way ever since. Exposing yourself to faliure and rejection is hard, especially to the ego. It takes a lot of courage to say 'I tried I failed and I was wrong, but I'm not giving up, I'll learn from my mistakes and try again, and again.' The results speak for themselves, Honda has a lot of racing success.
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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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Brian Coat wrote:
haza wrote:Now the token system has been lifted will the manufacturers be able to develop there engine as much as they want if so i think it would bring Honda on par with merc assuming no other team overtakes them
In theory, another factor to even things up is 18:1 CR limit?

If this is limited, won't the scope for overall pressure ratio increase (boost & CR) be constrained by lack of useful expansion ratio, assuming that useful MGU-H expansion power is largely limited by MGU-K limits? I'm not certain about this.

Honda have not even reached this chapter yet but they seem to be moving fast, so in 2017 they might surprise us.
You can compromise on this area to a certain extent by with playing with the crank throw, and the rod ratio to increase piston dwell at tdc.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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honda_fun wrote:http://i.imgur.com/kuAoqrb.jpg
Honda PU at Spa Francorchamps circuit, photo by japanese f1 reporter, Mr.Yoneya, showed that was almost same layout at from last year. Last3token will may be used for JTI at Malaysia GP.
Biggest charge pipes of all cars so far. Notice Honda only has a single passage, while other teams have double pipes, one to each side. Clearly their compressor is pushing more air than 2015.
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loner
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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honda_fun wrote:http://i.imgur.com/kuAoqrb.jpg
Honda PU at Spa Francorchamps circuit, photo by japanese f1 reporter, Mr.Yoneya, showed that was almost same layout at from last year. Last3token will may be used for JTI at Malaysia GP.
perhaps they won't need to change PU for that , if true at least ALO won't have other penalties after upgrade last 3 tokens , i believe thats the case Hasegawa already said the upgrade is in two steps so this 7 tokens serve the final peice of the puzzle (last 3 tokens) thats what i hope :mrgreen:
para bellum.

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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I wonder what they're going to do. With 3 tokens they can't really change much, MGU-K and control electronics? New cells? Injectors? Each of those are 2 tokens. New combustion concept would be 3 tokens.

Something interesting to ponder, anyone that's tinkered and stuffed turbos in engines that have no business having them may know what I'm talking about. We see how much oil the Mercedes engines burn when they sit idling for a moment. Then I got to thinking and wondered why engines that are a little old and burn some oil respond better to boost? Respond better in the sense that they can tolerate a bit more boost before knocking becomes an issue. I always wondered if the oil entering the combustion chamber as it slips past the rings was the reason I could run a bit more boost on a tired engine. Or maybe it's just the increased cylinder wall clearance that allows a bit more blow by, lowering the compression despite the geometric CR.

Just thinking out loud I guess.
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zac510
zac510
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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Why leave those tokens unused anyway? They're not carried over to last year so there's no point in keeping them. Might aswell use them and get a few races of testing done.
Of course I don't know s--t, maybe they would prefer the final races to be done on the current specification of engine.

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FrukostScones
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... ng-on-2017

All was true... Maybe he himself is part oft the glory.
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

OviJohn
OviJohn
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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FrukostScones wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... ng-on-2017

All was true... Maybe he himself is part oft the glory.
So the final three tokens will be used for further ICE development. Nice!

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mclaren111
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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Autosport.com
Hasegawa:
"We have a completely separate team from the start of this year concentrating on next year's engine," said Hasegawa.
Good news !! Let's hope we start 2017 with a bang [-o< [-o<

taperoo2k
taperoo2k
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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mclaren111 wrote:Autosport.com
Hasegawa:
"We have a completely separate team from the start of this year concentrating on next year's engine," said Hasegawa.
Good news !! Let's hope we start 2017 with a bang [-o< [-o<
Probably don't want them starting 2017 with bangs. They just need to show significant progress with
the Power Unit's overall performance.

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godlameroso
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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"Singapore will definitely suit us a bit more. I think we still struggle with traction, but it will definitely suit us better than here, this is our toughest circuit of the year, and to be that close to the top 10, I don't think is too horrific." Interesting quote from Button. Does this mean they have drivability issues from the power unit?
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Paul
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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Could be chassis related... When was the last time McLarens shot out of corners even with Mercedes engines?

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mclaren111
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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Probably don't want them starting 2017 with bangs. They just need to show significant progress with
the Power Unit's overall performance.
I meant bang in positive way as in better than expected !!

PABLOEING
PABLOEING
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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Button confirm new upgrade engine and fuel in Malaysia

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Craigy
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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PABLOEING wrote:Button confirm new upgrade engine and fuel in Malaysia
source link?