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From the two articles I've read it seems Mclaren have been found to have lots of ferrari data incorporated (or in development). They have pretended they didnt know and gone "oh we are really sorry, didnt realise it was so far into the team"
WHAT A JOKE
Then to try and some how make it better they have said they will restrict development on the 2008 car.
The apology was unexpected actually , may be they had no other options left , Ron always wanted the truth to come out , and it came out in a matter that he would't have expected. Its almost a decade since Mclaren won the Contructors
Championship , they would be desprate .
And they've even taken the extraordinary steps, as highlighted in their letter to the WSMC/Max Mosley http://www.mclaren.com/latestnews/pdf/M ... embers.pdf
they they won't develop their engine braking/brake bias system influenced by the Ferrari system..
At the hearing on 26 July 2007, McLaren formally announced that it had carried out a thorough in-house investigation and that it could guarantee that no information coming from Stepney through Coughlan had penetrated McLaren. There are only two alternatives: either (i) McLaren did carry out thorough investigations, in which case it necessarily discovered the inconvenient truth, but decided to hide it, or (ii) McLaren did not carry out thorough investigations. In both cases, McLaren did not tell the truth to the WMSC.
I think that goes well with this:
our own investigations into this matter were insufficient, although we would ask you to have regard to the fact that such investigations were conducted during a highly intense racing season and under significant time pressure. As a result, our investigations focused most strongly on satisfying ourselves that no Ferrari confidential information had been used directly or indirectly on the 2007 and 2008 cars.
Which, again, shows just how really that team is working. Definitely the most hypocrite team on the grid.
I find all this rather inconsequential to be honest. I mean its very easy to critisise Mclaren saying "See look, Dennis knew all along how indepth the knowledge was in his team, the truth has come out, he lied all along" etc etc etc. I see lots of evidence to suggest that Mclaren did in fact benifit from the data, but I see no evidence to suggest that Ron Dennis did know all along. Either way...it doesn't matter does it.
I wouldn't say that Mclaren as a team spied, only one empolyee did, however Mclaren as a team did benifit and use this info, so they are guilty of that.
Actually if Ron Dennis did know all along, it would have been much better for him not to have a statement released saying such things. Would have been far better to have the whole organisation metaphorically shut it's mouth.
@ djones; why does a Mclaren's actions warrant a 10year ban? For spying and gaining an advantage? for lying? You might as well issue a 10year ban to all the teams then, cause they all do it. And lying isn't a crime.
At the end of the day Mclaren have damaged their public image badly, and it will take a while for people to forget. the 100m euro fine is massively disproportional to the crime, a claim of mine further backed up by Renault getting away with nothing what-so-ever (they didn't do as much as Mclaren I know, but if Mclaren's actions warrent a fine like then then why doesn't Renault's warrent a "tiny" 10m fine or something?"
Mclaren could be accused of damaging the image of F1, I would agree although I'd also say that the drama has drawn in some viewers and/or casual observeres also. And if you plan on accusing Mclaren of Damaging the sport's image then the FIA are just as guilty in theirt handling of the whole situation. Even more so with the possibility of trying to "silence" Martin Brundle, who frankly is one of the best journo's in the business. Just because they don't like his opinion does not give them the right to try and silence that opinion...can anybody say Hitler? Mugabe maybe? (spelling may be incorrect - i apologise).
Silence is golden when you don't know a good answer.
I personally believe that RD and MW did know all along, but even if others don't - the fact that they were able to actually claim that they have taken every measure to investigate the matter thoroughly is enough to understand how low are their management skills and integrity.
We are talking about a thorough investigation which for some reason didn't include key personnel inside the team, such as the drivers and leading engineers.
I also believe it's time for those who claim that the fine was exaggerated to start realizing what McLaren have really done (and the subject of their latest letter says it all) and let us not forget that they were allowed to deduct a serious part of it, in accordance to their number of points. A one year ban from the championship, or a year and a half out of it, would have cost them and their fans a great deal more. Either way, the latter should be seriously worried about the people who run their team, both in present and the future.
The fine, the negative media attention, the self limited ban on developing the braking system, or what ever it is in the MP23 and the grovelling apollogy to the FIA is not really that damaging to the fans of Macca..
It is, however, seriously damaging to the long term finances of McLaren in terms of investors, commercial partners and sponsors of the team.. Who in their right minds want to be commercially linked to publicly outed cheats?
<--- Martin Witmarsh <--- Ron Dennis <--- Vodafone & Santander
Rob W wrote:I tend to think the FIA have, all along, wanted McLaren to admit publicly what they did....
and
Rob W wrote:Perhaps Max just said to them: admit it publicly for the sake of public respect for F1's ability to manage it's own business.. and we'll end our hounding of you.
Pretty much confirming this, Max Mosley came out today and said:
"In the light of McLaren's public apology and undertakings the FIA president has asked the members of the World Motor Sport Council for their consent to cancel the hearing scheduled for February 14 and, in the interests of the sport, to consider this matter closed," he declared.
- Perhaps Max just said to them: The only thing limiting the engines should be the restricted amout of fuel burned per race. Also we should bring the slicks back asap, but without messing up the aero.
or at least
- Perhaps Max just said to them: Engine freeze is a big mistake. We should revise it.
or at least
- Perhaps Max just said to them: bloody hell I should quit asap...
McLaren don't usually launch their cars like the other teams. The just roll them out and put a few fancy pics, and maybe a design timeline on their website. Last year was special though, they launched not only a new car, but two new drivers (ham and alonso), new title sponsor (vodafone, along with several others: santander, mutua madrilena, aigo etc) as well as a new car. It marked a virtually new beginning for the team. So not unusual of them to not have a huge launch.
Yes, the McLaren apologists continue to say that it's OK to lie, cheat, and steal because "everyone does it." But at least . .
1) We no longer have anyone bleating that it's all a Ferrari conspiracy, or 2) that Ferrari "planted" the data, or
3) that Stepney was a sacrificial lamb, or
4) that Ferrari is to blame for allowing themselves to be robbed.
And for those of you who say that everyone lies cheats and steals, take a long look in the mirror.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill
yea cos its absolutely impossible that mclaren lied in that press release.
If FIA told McLaren: ok admit you cheated and we'll drop all charges. This makes FIA look good as it will seem they were right all the time, and that there is no bias towards any team (Renault, ferrari) because Macca are know officially cheaters. McLaren lose the possibility of being thrown out of next years championship. Which means 800-1000 jobs are saved and they get their futures assured.
This is a win win situation wouldn't you say? FIA looks good, fair and serious again, i.e their credibility is restored. McLaren will be embarrassed for 3-4 days, but eventually acknowledge that this was necessary to save all those jobs and money. I mean the confession was released in the off-season when only the hardcores like ourselves are following whats going on in F1 anyway.
Then comes the big question, when will Stepney/Coughlan be punished?
On Stepney: seriously it does not take 8 months to find out what some white powder is. Put it on your tongue, either it has a sour taste (detergent, Stepney is guilty of sabotage) or it makes you high (some mechanics are trying to get some money on the side by smugling coke in the fuel tanks).
I'll believe all of this nonsense is true the day both of them are punished
<--- Max Mosley
<--- Jean Todt and Ferrari
