Silly Season 2016/2017

[Vasconia]

Esteban Ocon is not having a good debut in F1. Ocon is easily outperformed by his teammate in qualify and race. Much easier than Haryanto.

If you say that because of Ocon is still adjusting to the car, for a guy who won the European F3 championship and GP3 championship in his debut season, doesn't seem to be a convincing explanation.

And I don't know if this can influence in his negotiations with Renault for 2017.

Perhaps we should give more time to him, but yes, his debut is being quite underwhelming . Haryanto had some decent performances and I think he deserved to end the season.

[OneAlex]

I was surprised by Haryanto actually, he performed better than I expected him to. Which actually makes Ocon's two performances look even worse given Haryanto occasionally made Werlein look fairly plain.

But then I never expected Ocon to do particularly well. The car is supposedly difficult, and even the guys in the top teams can struggle in a car that's unsuited to them (Button and Webber were speed demons in some cars, but struggled with others, Vettel was godly with RB's blown diffuser, but can't wring the maximum from the current cars in the same was as Alonso).

On top of that you have Werlein who has had 6 months of practice in it already, and by now knows his set-ups etc better. You can always argue an F1 driver should be skilled enough to overcome car differences but it's not always the case, let alone for a fresh rookie.

It kind of reminds me of Stevens vs Merhi. Okay Merhi was no Bianchi but I think he had more speed in him than given credit for, but his lack of sim time/resources (even having the correct seat) compared to Stevens meant he was consistently slower until he got used to the car and started reigning Stevens in (all too late).

That's my personal opinion, anyway... could be wrong.

[efuloni]

I can list a number of things that Nasr did in F1 what I consider ''excellent'', due to bad car he drives in 2015 and in 2016, starting with his debut race until his last race. If you want

Please do.

Two very basic but telling arguments against Nasr is that with a better car he cannot do what Wehrlein has done, and that Ericsson was able to drive with a chassi which Nasr struggled with. Besides his first f1 race i cannot recall a single highlight of him.

Really? He scored 27 points last year, finished 13º in the drivers table and he was good only in his first race? At the beggining of this year he didn't have the updated version of the chassis, so Ericsson was a lit bit better. Since then, Nasr is being, again, better than his teammate. With his car, you cannot ask for more.

About Werlein, Manor, in many tracks, had a better car.

[Manoah2u]

As for Ocon,
I think it's too early to 'judge' him yet. Expecting 'more' from him is rather a form of looking wrong at things, to be honest.

He might have been wonderfull in all other classes, F1 is a different class altogether and he 'suddenly' finds him driving active in F1 in the middle of it all.
Not to 'praise' max too much, but the fact max seems to have a talent for adapting very fast doesnt neccesarily mean other drivers can and should too,
or that they 'dissappoint' if they dont get up to speed as fast.

Matter of fact, I remember a certain Daniel Ricciardo in HRT of which one might say he didnt' blow' everybody away either at Hispania Racing Team.
Quickly being fast doesnt neccesarily mean a good thing either, there have been other drivers that immediately went 'up to speed' compared to their
teammates, but then hit a 'cieling' and quite frankly never got forward past that point.

Grosjean is another example of 'suddenly' finding himself in F1 and then not being able to deliver or you might say - disappointing. Luckily for him, he
got another chance and proved he actually has quite some talent with him.

I think writing ocon off is a bit too early.
He might just find it difficult to adapt, he might himself be in a little 'slump' that really, any driver has at certain moments - and Pascal may be on a high,
or on a personal 'boost'.
Not to mention the possibility his management or team themselves dont want him to 'chase' pascal and simply work his own path and learn instead of
wanting 'too much' immediately and actually hampering himself.

Will have to see. It must be said though that i do imagine that if he keeps being 'slow' and rather unimpressive untill the end of the season, he could have
a really short F1 career.

[ChrisDanger]

Interesting article from autosport with Manor racing director Dave Ryan.

He says in Spa Ocon was compromised by a broken brake duct, in Monza he had a terminal electrical issue, and in Singapore he was stationary for approximately 75 seconds during his first stop, then 15s in his third.

Hard to prove yourself with all that going on.

Source.

[ME4ME]

I can list a number of things that Nasr did in F1 what I consider ''excellent'', due to bad car he drives in 2015 and in 2016, starting with his debut race until his last race. If you want

Please do.

Two very basic but telling arguments against Nasr is that with a better car he cannot do what Wehrlein has done, and that Ericsson was able to drive with a chassi which Nasr struggled with. Besides his first f1 race i cannot recall a single highlight of him.

Really? He scored 27 points last year, finished 13º in the drivers table and he was good only in his first race? At the beggining of this year he didn't have the updated version of the chassis, so Ericsson was a lit bit better. Since then, Nasr is being, again, better than his teammate. With his car, you cannot ask for more.

About Werlein, Manor, in many tracks, had a better car.

Can you be more specific what was so excellent last year? I honestly can't recall, I thought you might do, other than accumulated points.

Nasr's 2016 half-way stats aren't impressive either:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/08/04/w ... id-season/

[edu2703]

Two very basic but telling arguments against Nasr is that with a better car he cannot do what Wehrlein has done, and that Ericsson was able to drive with a chassi which Nasr struggled with. Besides his first f1 race i cannot recall a single highlight of him.

First: You say that Pascal Werhlein was able to make a good race in a bad car and Nasr never did it ...

2015 Russian GP: Nasr started in the 12th position and finished the race in 6th place.

If you look right, you will see that the Sauber car performance compared to other cars in Russia last year is equal to the Manor car performance compared to other cars in Austria this year, if you take into account the qualify results of two races. It's good to note that the two races had the same number of retirements.

Second: About the chassis, Nasr was not comfortable with the old chassis. If his old chassis had a problem or not, I don't know.

I know that the team changed his chassis and since the race in Baku until the last race (Singapore), Nasr is outperforming Ericsson in qualify (except Austria and Singapore) and race. In all races since Baku where both drivers finished the race, Nasr finished ahead of Ericsson.

Third: Highlight of him? 2015 Austrialian GP, 2015 Monaco GP (in this race, Nasr finished 9th with the third worst car on the grid. Finished ahead of Toro Rosso, Force India and Lotus, besides defending his position of Carlos Sainz, who had a car 1s faster than his car. 2015 Russian GP and I think I can include the 2016 European GP. Despite not having scored points in this race, it really extracted the most out of your car and finished in 12th place.

If you still are not 100% satisfied, I can name his 'little miracles'. I call 'little' because they didn't reflect much in his final results. (Overtakes, battles for position, driving in wet conditions, etc...)

[ME4ME]

Two very basic but telling arguments against Nasr is that with a better car he cannot do what Wehrlein has done, and that Ericsson was able to drive with a chassi which Nasr struggled with. Besides his first f1 race i cannot recall a single highlight of him.

First: You say that Pascal Werhlein was able to make a good race in a bad car and Nasr never did it ...

2015 Russian GP: Nasr started in the 12th position and finished the race in 6th place.

If you look right, you will see that the Sauber car performance compared to other cars in Russia last year is equal to the Manor car performance compared to other cars in Austria this year, if you take into account the qualify results of two races. It's good to note that the two races had the same number of retirements.

Second: About the chassis, Nasr was not comfortable with the old chassis. If his old chassis had a problem or not, I don't know.

I know that the team changed his chassis and since the race in Baku until the last race (Singapore), Nasr is outperforming Ericsson in qualify (except Baku and Singapore) and race. In all races since Baku where both drivers finished the race, Nasr finished ahead of Ericsson.

Third: Highlight of him? 2015 Austrialian GP, 2015 Monaco GP (in this race, Nasr finished 9th with the third worst car on the grid. Finished ahead of Toro Rosso, Force India and Lotus, besides defending his position of Carlos Sainz, who had a car 1s faster than his car. 2015 Russian GP and I think I can include the 2016 European GP. Despite not having scored points in this race, it really extracted the most out of your car and finished in 12th place.

If you still are not 100% satisfied, I can name his 'little miracles'. I call 'little' because they didn't reflect much in his final results. (Overtakes, battles for position, driving in wet conditions, etc...)

Ok so he had some decent performances. I wouldn't call them "excellent" like you stated though. I must say I have never been very impressed with him. I recall at the end of last year, people saw potential in Verstappen, Sainz and Nasr (in that order), personally I wasn't convinced then and I am not now.

Ericsson was horrible initially in F1, and then improved slightly. Still Nasr should beat him more regularly and by a larger margin.

For Sauber he is good enough. For Williams, personally I hope someone more exciting and talented will get that seat.

[ChrisDanger]

For Williams, personally I hope someone more exciting and talented will get that seat.

Well, there's this...

Asked if he feels ready at the age of 17 to be announced as an F1 driver, Stroll answered yes.

“With the introduction of the new regulations, I think it would be a good time to start, because everyone will be discovering at the same time,” said Stroll.

“Also, if the gap between GP2 and F1 only widens further, it’s best to get in sooner rather than later,” he added.

Sauce.

[Vasconia]

It kind of reminds me of Stevens vs Merhi. Okay Merhi was no Bianchi but I think he had more speed in him than given credit for, but his lack of sim time/resources (even having the correct seat) compared to Stevens meant he was consistently slower until he got used to the car and started reigning Stevens in (all too late).

That's my personal opinion, anyway... could be wrong.

Merhi´s problem was the lack of money as you pointed it out. He had worse resources but with time even with less resources he showed that he was clearly better than Steven. Its a pity that he hadn´t the chance of showing more with the current improved Manor.

[edu2703]

I was searching for the news that links Carlos Sainz Jr. to Renault and I found. This story was published two weeks ago. I'll translate for you only the most important parts. Link:http://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/201 ... b466a.html


Negotiations about the future of Carlos Sainz and Renault are still alive and in Monza accelerated with a meeting of the leadership of the french team and the name of Carlos was on the table. There are many pretenders for the two seats, and the next few days will be decisive for signing or not the spanish driver.

The last name to appear is of the brazilian Felipe Nasr, who has the support of the Banco do Brasil, and has become favorite in recent weeks to get one of the cars. The other favorite, Sérgio Pérez, loses strength, because his main goal, his "dream" as he himself said is to go to Ferrari. He could renew with Force India or make a transition year with Haas.

Frenchman Esteban Ocon, now debuting in Manor, has his options, although he's a Mercedes potential driver, if he made a good season finale.

The possible entry of a large Spanish sponsor in Renault can tip the balance toward the Spanish driver, once Renault does not seem to want to reduce the price of their engines, which is what Red Bull wants to release Sainz Jr.

The president of Renault company, the brazilian Carlos Ghosn is who apparently will have the final word about the drivers of his team, which could be announced as team leader Frederic Vasseur want: "in September".

Just remember that Sainz Jr. has already signed with Toro Rosso.

[ChrisDanger]

Some of the "news" published on the net is no better than the wild speculation posted by users in this thread. If you have to dig for a story and only find a single source the veracity diminishes.

[Vasconia]

Some of the "news" published on the net is no better than the wild speculation posted by users in this thread. If you have to dig for a story and only find a single source the veracity diminishes.

Marca is by no means a reliable source.

Anyway two months ago I saw these rumours on different sites(not only in Spanish). And the Renault team leader admitted that Carlos was an interesting driver.

Its an interesting detail that RB was surprisingly fast extending their deal with Carlos which could be an attempt to increase his price.

Anyway the favourite has been Perez becase he has delivered during these seasons and he has more experience to be a team leader. Anyway Carlos is very young and has talent. Could be like a second Alonso for Renault? who knows.

I have said before that a Perez-Sainz line up would be great, and it would be a truly boost for the team. It would be sad if they choose Nasr only for the Braziian money because he is not bad driver but I see nothing special in this guy.

[ChrisDanger]

I have said before that a Perez-Sainz line up would be great, and it would be a truly boost for the team. It would be sad if they choose Nasr only for the Braziian money because he is not bad driver but I see nothing special in this guy.

As far as I see things Perez and Sainz are both confirmed to stay where they are. Renault don't really need Nasr's money, but will probably choose an experienced driver to pair with Ocon. Other than that it's purely guesswork.

[Manoah2u]

A question though, why would Renault be so adamant to place Ocon in their team in 2017?