Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Craigy]

How many tokens are left for 2016 now?

One.

[fellowhoodlums]

ok, so lighter block and exhaust redesign.

In my simple mind .....

I understand that a better exhaust design helps gases escape quickly, less backward pressure blah...ok, not sure how much HP/Efficiency this brings.

The lighter block means less weight, ok get that too. However, how much gain is there here? The whole car is sandbagged to meet minimum weight requirements.

How much and what type of gain are we talking about with this update?

[godlameroso]

Probably doesn't even make more power, just a bit more efficient.

[PhillipM]

They may well have had the CoG above the legal minimum since the intake change and turbo got lifted, so maybe some refinement to the block brings that back down with the lighter weight, and if it's stronger perhaps they had reliability/power loss issues when running at full power for long periods, so that may help performance as the engines age.
Seems more like taking the last few tokens just for what little they can now focus is on next

[hurril]

They may well have had the CoG above the legal minimum since the intake change and turbo got lifted, so maybe some refinement to the block brings that back down with the lighter weight, and if it's stronger perhaps they had reliability/power loss issues when running at full power for long periods, so that may help performance as the engines age.
Seems more like taking the last few tokens just for what little they can now focus is on next

Making the engine block lighter is going to raise the CoG though.

[DarkAlman]

Isn't it possible Mobile 1 has made the new fuel but it's being used on the benches at Sakura in next years prototype?

[rscsr]

They may well have had the CoG above the legal minimum since the intake change and turbo got lifted, so maybe some refinement to the block brings that back down with the lighter weight, and if it's stronger perhaps they had reliability/power loss issues when running at full power for long periods, so that may help performance as the engines age.
Seems more like taking the last few tokens just for what little they can now focus is on next

Making the engine block lighter is going to raise the CoG though.

The CoG of the engine alone does not matter. And with a lighter engine they can use balast to lower the CoG of the car. (And the CoG of the PU has to be above 200mm the reference plane. The minimum weight of the PU has to be 145kg, according article 5.4 of the technical regulations)

[PhillipM]

Making the engine block lighter is going to raise the CoG though.

It's not, as the CoG of the engine itself and the weight of it is limited, so given they've moved components higher up this season, the refinements are probably aimed at taking weight from the top end and into the bottom of the block.

[godlameroso]

No one ever considered a lighter block doesn't retain as much heat?

[hurril]

Making the engine block lighter is going to raise the CoG though.

It's not, as the CoG of the engine itself and the weight of it is limited, so given they've moved components higher up this season, the refinements are probably aimed at taking weight from the top end and into the bottom of the block.

It is! You are talking about making the block lighter and then doing some more things. I didn't think about that though so I learnt something anyway

[taperoo2k]

Isn't it possible Mobile 1 has made the new fuel but it's being used on the benches at Sakura in next years prototype?

Mobil 1 has likely been working very closely with Honda since the project started, as you need to develop fuels and lubricants
to improve performance and reliability (see Mercedes). No point having a PU on the dyno if you are not using the
fuels that will be raced with.

[PlatinumZealot]

Lighter block means you can have more material for other things.. and that could mean more reliability...
Lighter block could also mean less heat soak in some areas.. could mean more reliability and even more power..
Could be so many things.

The times are looking very good so far in Malaysia second practice. Definitely more power in the upgrade.

[loner]

so basically 2 things should happen in 2017
bigger compressor
pre-chamber ignition
that sound promising don't you think looking at Mclaren-Honda pace currently

[godlameroso]

From what I've been told, and from what we've guessed, yes that's more or less the path they're taking. I wouldn't bet all my money on them not having any type of lean burn method. I'm sure they do, or at least 2 out of 3 parts. Part 3 is what holds all the power and that's what they're working on for next year, or so I've heard. Part of exploiting 'part 3' is getting the right amount of airflow from the turbo-machines. I'm guessing part 3 is the special fuel injector, and part 1 and 2 is the combustion chamber and fuel delivery before the injector. They expect to be able to match or exceed this year's Mercedes engine next year, whether they can make it as light, and compact, and reliable, and efficient with as good a CoG is the challenge. And whether it'll be enough for them to make sufficient inroads to fight at the front remains to be seen.

But they keep improving and improving, and I'm enjoying watching the development, I'm still dying to see that new exhaust. They'll be there or thereabouts, I doubt they'll pull a 2015 Renault and go backwards, my biggest fear is the chassis, more than the engine to be honest.

[RedNEO]

From what I've been told, and from what we've guessed, yes that's more or less the path they're taking. I wouldn't bet all my money on them not having any type of lean burn method. I'm sure they do, or at least 2 out of 3 parts. Part 3 is what holds all the power and that's what they're working on for next year, or so I've heard. Part of exploiting 'part 3' is getting the right amount of airflow from the turbo-machines. I'm guessing part 3 is the special fuel injector, and part 1 and 2 is the combustion chamber and fuel delivery before the injector. They expect to be able to match or exceed this year's Mercedes engine next year, whether they can make it as light, and compact, and reliable, and efficient with as good a CoG is the challenge. And whether it'll be enough for them to make sufficient inroads to fight at the front remains to be seen.

But they keep improving and improving, and I'm enjoying watching the development, I'm still dying to see that new exhaust. They'll be there or thereabouts, I doubt they'll pull a 2015 Renault and go backwards, my biggest fear is the chassis, more than the engine to be honest.

You shouldn't even fear the chassis to be honest. The engine is the key, they could run Merc level of downforce once the engine catches up. They have to compromise with the chassis a lot when the engine is not at the same level, they have the best chassis for this engine.