Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[loner]

From what I've been told, and from what we've guessed, yes that's more or less the path they're taking. I wouldn't bet all my money on them not having any type of lean burn method. I'm sure they do, or at least 2 out of 3 parts. Part 3 is what holds all the power and that's what they're working on for next year, or so I've heard. Part of exploiting 'part 3' is getting the right amount of airflow from the turbo-machines. I'm guessing part 3 is the special fuel injector, and part 1 and 2 is the combustion chamber and fuel delivery before the injector. They expect to be able to match or exceed this year's Mercedes engine next year, whether they can make it as light, and compact, and reliable, and efficient with as good a CoG is the challenge. And whether it'll be enough for them to make sufficient inroads to fight at the front remains to be seen.

But they keep improving and improving, and I'm enjoying watching the development, I'm still dying to see that new exhaust. They'll be there or thereabouts, I doubt they'll pull a 2015 Renault and go backwards, my biggest fear is the chassis, more than the engine to be honest.

thank you that was very informative because i kept telling my self they can't exceed 2015 Merc and Ferrari PU without any kind of lean burning whatsoever
plus Hasegawa also said TJI is doable perhaps they can have 2 different methods of lean burn working together haha i don't even know if its achievable
i guess the image near to complete now dots are connecting...

[Sasha]

I was told the 2 token upgrade they tested with Alonso the past Friday is finally the Pre-Chamber CC!

Mobil will have the new fuel for it next race in Japan.

Looks like Button will not have latest spec PU in Japan.

[PlatinumZealot]

But sources said it was lighter block and new exhaust.

Prechamber is a combination of CC spark plug and injector.... So... Can that be done with two tokens?

Who is telling the truth here?

[loner]

I was told the 2 token upgrade they tested with Alonso the past Friday is finally the Pre-Chamber CC!

Mobil will have the new fuel for it next race in Japan.

Looks like Button will not have latest spec PU in Japan.

great if true Vettel with 3 grid penalty and ALO overtake Kimi in first lap sounds good

[GoranF1]

But sources said it was lighter block and new exhaust.

Prechamber is a combination of CC spark plug and injector.... So... Can that be done with two tokens?

Who is telling the truth here?

I think Spanish paper AS had an article today saying about pre chamber aswell.

http://motor.as.com/motor/2016/10/03/fo ... 63670.html

Maybe someone can translate this...GT sucks.

[OviJohn]

Interesting, now Sasha somewhow confirms my doubts after reading this article http://motor.as.com/motor/2016/10/03/fo ... 63670.html (Posted by GoranF1 on the team forums)

In the article, they state that Honda will be using some sort of Pre Chamber Tech with its upgraded PU; but, from what we´ve been reading these past months here, many questions arise: Wasnt Pre Chamber Combustion aborted for this year? How could they pull it off with the remaining tokens? Wheres Sasha and the others to talk about this!?

Picking up from the article, they suggest that the tokens are being considered as "realibilty changes" and not discounted from their allocation. That would leave Honda once again with 3 tokens; BUT of course, this needs to be confirmed officially. Then they go about the "Pre Chamber" solution used by Honda stating that the engine block changes were made to accomodate a special type of spark plug/Injectors that will benefit from Mobil 1 final fuel upgrade (Most likely Suzuka)

Curiously, during the whole upgrade affair this weekend, I found it amusing that both team and drivers had been repeating the same lines: The upgrade is focused on reliability, not strict performance. Then came the FPs during friday showing no apparent improvement to further prove the story. Now for the fun part. IF indeed the tokens were used for reliability, then FIA has to "reimburse" at least 1 of the tokens utilised. Hence, Honda would still have atleast 2 tokens left! (instead of 1)

With all pieces in place, they´re supposed to be able to run a leaner mixture and have access to their most aggressive PU map for a longer period. So, in itself, the upgrade cant be judged as "pure power gain", but making the PU more efficient as a whole = Performance gains

Cant wait for friday now! "Suzuka Special" Banzaaaaai!

[fellowhoodlums]

But sources said it was lighter block and new exhaust.

Prechamber is a combination of CC spark plug and injector.... So... Can that be done with two tokens?

Who is telling the truth here?

Plenty official sources saying it was lighter block and exhaust, 1 token each. Don't see pre-chamber being done this year, some of the soundings from Honda was that they are still producing their interpretation of this.

Alonso used engine Friday practice and i can only think, as was said somewhere else, that there isn't many of these new bits around so being treated carefully so they can use them Suzuka.

New Exhaust fitted to Button but I think that was Sat/Sun and not the Fri session.

For sure it's all geared to get best result in Suzuka, particularly with Alonso's set up. I think performance at Malaysia was outstanding. Ok, lucky first lap for both and VSC having an effect for Alonso too. But, they are now a direct match for FI and Williams.

[PlatinumZealot]

That is what i thought as well. Because TJI to be effective as mercedes requires a super lean mixture.. And that would mean optimizing your turbocharger. Basically the last two pages of discussions.

[GoranF1]

So far Sasha has always been correct whit his info.

[godlameroso]

But sources said it was lighter block and new exhaust.

Prechamber is a combination of CC spark plug and injector.... So... Can that be done with two tokens?

Who is telling the truth here?

I think Spanish paper AS had an article today saying about pre chamber aswell.

http://motor.as.com/motor/2016/10/03/fo ... 63670.html

Maybe someone can translate this...GT sucks.

Basically confirming they have a pre-chamber, and in part they used the reliability loophole along with the two tokens. The exhaust cost no tokens. I think the block is lighter in the sense that it's got less material due to a pre-chamber design.

They expect to be closer to Ferrari than they have been all season, and hope for a top 5 finish or higher should something happen up front.

New fuel from Mobil1 is being introduced for the rest of the season. It's been part of a long term plan to be "best of the rest" behind the big 3 teams, then in Suzuka do the final update to try to close the gap to Ferrari as much as possible.

In Sepang Alonso had the 6th fastest lap however he was still almost a second off Red Bull, .7 seconds off Ferrari, and 1.4 seconds off Mercedes Pace.

[Sasha]

Public will know for sure at Honda's home GP because they will be talking alot there to the Japanese press.

[GoranF1]

But sources said it was lighter block and new exhaust.

Prechamber is a combination of CC spark plug and injector.... So... Can that be done with two tokens?

Who is telling the truth here?

I think Spanish paper AS had an article today saying about pre chamber aswell.

http://motor.as.com/motor/2016/10/03/fo ... 63670.html

Maybe someone can translate this...GT sucks.

Basically confirming they have a pre-chamber, and in part they used the reliability loophole along with the two tokens. The exhaust cost no tokens. I think the block is lighter in the sense that it's got less material due to a pre-chamber design.

They expect to be closer to Ferrari than they have been all season, and hope for a top 5 finish or higher should something happen up front.

New fuel from Mobil1 is being introduced for the rest of the season. It's been part of a long term plan to be "best of the rest" behind the big 3 teams, then in Suzuka do the final update to try to close the gap to Ferrari as much as possible.

In Sepang Alonso had the 6th fastest lap however he was still almost a second off Red Bull, .7 seconds off Ferrari, and 1.4 seconds off Mercedes Pace.

Great news hope its true....bring on Suzuka!

[tom101]

don't trust that info

the journalist is unable to wright properly the word "engine head" (culeta)

[godlameroso]

The loophole is that they count this as a reliability upgrade not as a performance upgrade, in other words it only allows power that is already there to be used more often.

[PlatinumZealot]

So far Sasha has always been correct whit his info.

Hmm.. He always comes out with radical stuff that we challenge but never really revisit when the real facts actually come out so the jury is still out.