Silly Season 2016/2017

[iotar__]

Hulk to Renault would make total sense even for FI,
because they could easily get a similar ranked driver
like K MAG, who comes with a few millions from his
sponsor Jack and Jones or more probably Wehrlein
with an engine discount from MB.

FI does not need a experienced driver because they
keep Checo, but they need every single extra dollar.

In conclusion, it will happen, because its a Win-Win-Win
situation.

- Losing optimal results and prize money because of minor sponsors or engine discount (Wehrlein) is not exactly win-win. It's more lose x1 situation. I doubt they'd take him.
- They have Perez? Doesn't matter, they need two drivers not one. They are successful this season and were in previous ones because of no BS driver management. They have Perez means they can hire on merit.
- Magnussen wouldn't potentially be bad, except he's unreliable and is driving the same way now as in the beginning of '14. After ~35 race you should expect more than potential.

[Vasconia]

Apart from Schumacher obviously being the biggest deal ever for Ferrari, has Ferrari ever had a outspoken 'superstar' somewhat comparable like Hamilton in their posession?

Schumacher was a good option for Ferrari because he pust some order and sense there. He had charm but the was cold at the same time. I dont think that Hamilton´s explosive character could fit well, if things go well, ok but if not that could be the most dramatic divorce in F1 history.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

The question is, which Champion driver OR a high potential driver seeking a championship would like to go to Ferrari at the moment? My answer is none. It would be suicidal for Hamilton to go to Ferrari. A team that forced Schumacher out and readily ditched Alonso in favor of Vettel, who himself has met with loads of frustration and being told to "Earn his Salary". If at all Lewis wants to go out of Mercedes, McLaren would still be the best option.

[Vasconia]

The question is, which Champion driver OR a high potential driver seeking a championship would like to go to Ferrari at the moment? My answer is none. It would be suicidal for Hamilton to go to Ferrari. A team that forced Schumacher out and readily ditched Alonso in favor of Vettel, who himself has met with loads of frustration and being told to "Earn his Salary". If at all Lewis wants to go out of Mercedes, McLaren would still be the best option.

This "Earn his Salary" sentence sounds so f*cking pretentious for a team who hasnt been able to build a WC car in years and for a team which is a mess on race strategies.

In 30 years Ferrari has only been capable of building a winner project when the best driver came with his own engineers and the team leader(who were not Italians) could manage the team without interferences. This is no happening right now.

[Facts Only]

The question is, which Champion driver OR a high potential driver seeking a championship would like to go to Ferrari at the moment? My answer is none. It would be suicidal for Hamilton to go to Ferrari. A team that forced Schumacher out and readily ditched Alonso in favor of Vettel, who himself has met with loads of frustration and being told to "Earn his Salary". If at all Lewis wants to go out of Mercedes, McLaren would still be the best option.

How on earth is Mclaren the best option? A team that havent built a decent car in years powered by the worst engine. He'd be better going to FIF1, or Red Bull, or Williams or Ferrari, even Haas would probably be a better option with his love of all things hollywood.

If Lewis did leave Merc (he wont) the best place to go would be Renault, build a team around himself and aim for the 2018-2020 championships.

Thing is he cant "leave" now because it would be spun as him sulking off after losing to Rosberg. The only way around that would be a a big money 'superstar' buyout from Renault.

[ScottB]

I imagine if Lewis leaves anytime soon, it will be out of the sport completely, rather than jumping to another team!

[Vasconia]

If Lewis did leave Merc (he wont) the best place to go would be Renault, build a team around himself and aim for the 2018-2020 championships.

Thing is he cant "leave" now because it would be spun as him sulking off after losing to Rosberg. The only way around that would be a a big money 'superstar' buyout from Renault.

Lets be sincere, Lewis is an amazing driver but he is not a patient guy, he would not fit at all.

Renault needs a Schumacher-esque driver not a Senna-esque one. The French team will need 2-3 years in order to fight for the championship. They need a young and talented driver with the correct profile and build a team around him. He must have enough patience to wait a couple of seasons until they can win a WC.

[basti313]

I imagine if Lewis leaves anytime soon, it will be out of the sport completely, rather than jumping to another team!

True. I really can not picture a move inside F1. I see him at Merc or US racing the next years. At the moment the incredible salery keeps him at Merc for sure.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

The question is, which Champion driver OR a high potential driver seeking a championship would like to go to Ferrari at the moment? My answer is none. It would be suicidal for Hamilton to go to Ferrari. A team that forced Schumacher out and readily ditched Alonso in favor of Vettel, who himself has met with loads of frustration and being told to "Earn his Salary". If at all Lewis wants to go out of Mercedes, McLaren would still be the best option.

How on earth is Mclaren the best option? A team that havent built a decent car in years powered by the worst engine. He'd be better going to FIF1, or Red Bull, or Williams or Ferrari, even Haas would probably be a better option with his love of all things hollywood.

Wasn't Mercedes in similar situation in 2012, when Lewis signed with them? McLaren had the best car in 2012 and everyone thought it was a bad decision to go to Mercedes who were struggling and finished 5th in 2012. It was McLaren's f**k ups that drove him away. Would it be Deja Vu?

2 Years of learning is a long period to get hold of the PU and Honda isn't a mediocre organization. In 2013 when they jumped back, they didn't realized the challenges of building the new age power units. But since then, they have upped the investment and in the last 12 months, it is McLaren-Honda who have made the highest gains in the car's performance, higher than Mercedes. They are on upward curve, similar to Mercedes 2013. And remember, it is McLaren who have lobbied hard for the regulations change for 2017. I wouldn't be surprised to see a very strong McLaren Honda fighting at the front next year. And hence, McLaren would be the next best option for Lewis IF INDEED, he would choose to leave.

RB is locked out with Dan and Max. Period. That is not even an option for Lewis.

[Facts Only]

Upward curve? Hmmm, its been downward since 2012 to to the point where they really couldnt go any lower, they literally couldnt do any worse than last year. I'd say bumping off the bottom is a better description of the current trend.

Honda will make up some ground but are too far behind to catch Merc on the PU and Mclaren have shown that they are midfield chassis builders.

The difference to Merc in 2010-2013 is that they (Merc) were putting the structure in place to build a winning team for the clear goal of a 2014 title win., Mclaren are treading water with the same structure, practices and management.

i said it last year and I'll say it again this year... "if Mclaren win anything next year I'll forfeit all of my upvotes"

[iotar__]

If Lewis did leave Merc (he wont) the best place to go would be Renault, build a team around himself and aim for the 2018-2020 championships.

Thing is he cant "leave" now because it would be spun as him sulking off after losing to Rosberg. The only way around that would be a a big money 'superstar' buyout from Renault.

Lets be sincere, Lewis is an amazing driver but he is not a patient guy, he would not fit at all.

Renault needs a Schumacher-esque driver not a Senna-esque one. The French team will need 2-3 years in order to fight for the championship. They need a young and talented driver with the correct profile and build a team around him. He must have enough patience to wait a couple of seasons until they can win a WC.

Signal to noise is getting low in this thread. Why are you stuck on Schumacher or Hamilton (why not Rosberg)? At least you all spared us Vettel this time as a superstar. Renault's problem and the way to solve it is not some made up driver from the past or present that doesn't exist .

- Their driver approach should be as for any other team: two best possible drivers that will add tenths and performance that the car is lacking and competition is not capable of. They can't afford losses and mistakes like in '16. List is the same: Gro, Bott, Per in that order. Their problem is those driver don't want to drive for them in '17.

- Second problem is they are stuck on some corporate/marketing fiction and starting all backwards. Championship in '20 , year later: no it's too hard, let's change it to '25 and so on. As if the world will wait and adjust to that. So they take Ocon because he's the right age (working backwards x2), French and has a nice smile.

- Reality is different and secondary but can't be avoided entirely. They know it can be a failure like '16 so they need an "experienced" driver. They start with Sainz because he looks good and because of Spanish sponsors (ignore the racing part, why not Magnussen?) - not available, OK let's check Perez (now?! why not earlier?) - doesn't want. No one is available but N.H. Bingo.

- third problem is how demoralising money for nothing from Bernard E. is. They're not in the hurry, keeping jobs, checking bank balance and if posters look nice and that's all folks. See you in 2022 or something, doing their best Toyota/Honda impression.

Edit: (I need to write a novel). If I run Renault my first choice would be to start paying very top to middle based on performance (like RB but realistic), saved money on car and drivers, I guarantee you five second later people making driver decisions would fire Palmer and wouldn't even think about hiring Ocon.

[Vasconia]

If Lewis did leave Merc (he wont) the best place to go would be Renault, build a team around himself and aim for the 2018-2020 championships.

Thing is he cant "leave" now because it would be spun as him sulking off after losing to Rosberg. The only way around that would be a a big money 'superstar' buyout from Renault.

Lets be sincere, Lewis is an amazing driver but he is not a patient guy, he would not fit at all.

Renault needs a Schumacher-esque driver not a Senna-esque one. The French team will need 2-3 years in order to fight for the championship. They need a young and talented driver with the correct profile and build a team around him. He must have enough patience to wait a couple of seasons until they can win a WC.

Signal to noise is getting low in this thread. Why are you stuck on Schumacher or Hamilton (why not Rosberg)? At least you all spared us Vettel this time as a superstar. Renault's problem and the way to solve it is not some made up driver from the past or present that doesn't exist .

- Their driver approach should be as for any other team: two best possible drivers that will add tenths and performance that the car is lacking and competition is not capable of. They can't afford losses and mistakes like in '16. List is the same: Gro, Bott, Per in that order. Their problem is those driver don't want to drive for them in '17.

- Second problem is they are stuck on some corporate/marketing fiction and starting all backwards. Championship in '20 , year later: no it's too hard, let's change it to '25 and so on. As if the world will wait and adjust to that. So they take Ocon because he's the right age (working backwards x2), French and has a nice smile.

- Reality is different and secondary but can't be avoided entirely. They know it can be a failure like '16 so they need an "experienced" driver. They start with Sainz because he looks good and because of Spanish sponsors (ignore the racing part, why not Magnussen?) - not available, OK let's check Perez (now?! why not earlier?) - doesn't want. No one is available but N.H. Bingo.

- third problem is how demoralising money for nothing from Bernard E. is. They're not in the hurry, keeping jobs, checking bank balance and if posters look nice and that's all folks. See you in 2022 or something, doing their best Toyota/Honda impression.

Edit: (I need to write a novel). If I run Renault my first choice would be to start paying very top to middle based on performance (like RB but realistic), saved money on car and drivers, I guarantee you five second later people making driver decisions would fire Palmer and wouldn't even think about hiring Ocon.

Rosberg would be a good choice but he has resisted the pressure of being Hamilton´s teanmate I dont think that he will leave Mercedes anytime soon.

Carlos Sainz(the father) has said that his son was ready to go to Renault but RB denied this chance. It seems that they want to have a plan B if Ricciardo or Max leaves the team in 2018.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Honda will make up some ground but are too far behind to catch Merc on the PU

Renault was in the same situation last year, having fallen back compared to 2014 that made relationship go sour with RB. To the extent that RB ditched them and were chasing other manufacturers. Look where they are now. Not too bad a PU now, just a few tenths off.
Ferrari was in even worse situation in 2014 and look what happened in 2015. There PU is nearly equal to Merc today.
So, why would it be inconceivable for Honda to close the gap and be equal?
Like I mentioned, Mercs are now in the risk zone to push the envelop for performance gains. Slowing down.

The difference to Merc in 2010-2013 is that they (Merc) were putting the structure in place to build a winning team for the clear goal of a 2014 title win., Mclaren are treading water with the same structure, practices and management.

In the hindsight, it is always convenient to NOW say, Merc were preparing for 2014, but back when they were in mess, was the success in 2014 guaranteed? Putting together whatever structure that was being put in place, was that structure guaranteed to harvest success? Answer is NO. But it was all the intuition, conviction and belief of one man. It just all worked out. Is that a recipe for success? May be, may be not.

Mercedes F1 team was a team of 200+ people at the start of 2010 and without any depth in technical departments and DESPERATELY NEEDED the uplift in their capabilities, including a 60% scaling of the wind tunnel model. So, they went from 200+ to 600+ on resources and from below 100 million to over 400 millions in budget. McLaren doesn't need anymore restructuring as it has always had the structure and people. It's a matter of getting everything together in a way that WORKS. In the last two decades, every racing team has got talent from McLaren. That's a fact. Which means, they have a way of developing talent, unlike any other racing team so far. May be their strength and weakness both, is Ron's way of operating them. Now he has boss on top of him.

"if Mclaren win anything next year I'll forfeit all of my upvotes"

May your wish come true.

[Facts Only]

I can say for a fact, that in 2010 Merc were already aiming for 2014, planning preparing, structuring. Mclaren are just teading the same water and expecting something different to happen.

As for the PU debate, you have proven my point, Ferrari and Renault started at the same time as Merc and are still behind, it may be "only a few of tenths" but those few tenths are stoppping Red Bull being serious challengers. Honda are 2 years behind so probably a "few more tenths off"

Even if by your magic wish Mclaren build a chassis on a par with Merc/Red Bull (which they wont) and Honda build a PU that is "a few tenths off" that will make them just another also ran.

As for Mclaren not needing to re-structure, they need need to do something. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?

[ChrisDanger]

i said it last year and I'll say it again this year... "if Mclaren win anything next year I'll forfeit all of my upvotes"

Alonso won fastest lap in Monza. Should I talk to the mods about your upvotes?