F1 Batteries

[FW17]

Why F1 batteries are not developed by battery manufacturers like fuel but being taken up by the engine manufacturers

Shouldn't it be like

[Manoah2u]

Because they're not AA batteries they slap in the back.
Neither are those batteries like the batteries in your car like Optima as a brand, for example.
They are an essential part of the engine, so it's logical they're manufactured from the engine manufacturer.

Shell doesn't construct the engine either, they lube it.

The batteries are manufactured by the engine manufacturer themselves, though perhaps certain parts are imported.
that however also goes for other parts of the car. I'm not sure if all teams make screws and nuts in-house, but I don't think
anybody has interest in where they bought those.

Also, its about 'exposure'. Mercedes making a WCC winning hybrid engine is the best exposure you can have to convince a potential buyer
on buying a Mercedes hybrid over a for example BMW hybrid, or why they should buy a Renault Hybrid over a Honda Hybrid.

[FW17]

Because they're not AA batteries they slap in the back.
Neither are those batteries like the batteries in your car like Optima as a brand, for example.
They are an essential part of the engine, so it's logical they're manufactured from the engine manufacturer.

Shell doesn't construct the engine either, they lube it.

The batteries are manufactured by the engine manufacturer themselves, though perhaps certain parts are imported.
that however also goes for other parts of the car. I'm not sure if all teams make screws and nuts in-house, but I don't think
anybody has interest in where they bought those.

Also, its about 'exposure'. Mercedes making a WCC winning hybrid engine is the best exposure you can have to convince a potential buyer
on buying a Mercedes hybrid over a for example BMW hybrid, or why they should buy a Renault Hybrid over a Honda Hybrid.

Well in the future the will be a standard for batteries which will make them compatible across manufacturers and there will be battery swapping stations as against fast charging.

I don't see car manufacturers setting up charging stations or battery swapping stations

[Manoah2u]

"in the future".

we're not even close there, and F1 technology is different to everyday use.

And a standard for batteries? i hardly believe that will really happen in the future regarding commercial vehicles. but if it does happen, it still doesn't matter even one iota. and even if a standard battery is mandatory in F1, that means you have zero gain there, so battery manufacturers won't have interest. If there's a standard mandated battery than battery providers can't bring 'their quality' in the product where they 'outperform' the competition, so it's simply non-existant.
the manufacturer wants you to trust in their product so you'll buy it.

There is not going to be a day when there is a buyer going to concider a Mercedes over a BMW because Mercedes has the Panasonic battery and the BMW has the Samsung battery.
It's a Merc they buy, or a BMW they buy. Also, F1 engines operate differently to commercial car engines. there really is no comparison.

about those charging stations,
you must have not heard of TESLA it seems.

meanwhile, i don't see battery swapping stations period. that won't happen in F1 anyway.
Formula E might be a different focus, but that's not the discussion here.

[Jolle]

Big chance those companies already supply the different manufactures. But as long as the maker of the batteries don't have to be marketed of if there is a overstock on the market, there will be no "panasonic" or "samsung" branded batteries in F1.

but, in the future:in you can choose a hybrid Renault with the Samsung performance package, then, it will be marketed like that (wether or not the batteries are actually used). Suppliers and the brands they are given are not always the same. Just look at the early Mercedes days upon their return in the early '90 or of course the ford branded cosworth engines.

[Juzh]

Doesn't renault in fact use panasonic derived batteries for their energy store. I heard it mentioned some time ago.

[bill shoe]

Original question is very good. Batteries are the most important part of road-going hybrid and/or full-electric cars. F1, particularly the powertrain portion, is funded and therefore controlled by traditional car companies who are not incentivized to promote major battery suppliers.

Formula E, which should be the ideal series for battery makers, bizarrely has spec batteries with little or no branding. And I can't help notice Formula E has an increasing number of traditional car company teams/sponsors as opposed to say, a Tesla team or something like that. It seems to be a bit of a playground for Internal Combustion car companies to promote themselves with a certain electric image without having to compete and win/lose on the basis of the important electric parts such as battery.

[zac510]

I was under the impression that Formula E wants to have multiple battery makers but at the moment the formula is not established enough to handle it. ie, they can't really afford to have one manufacturer come in and dominate all the teams out of it (like 1998 FIA GT). F1 can handle that because of its history and patient fans

[FW17]

.With so many car companies which are looking to make electric cars, what better way demonstrating there technical powers than through the fast development pace and environment of F1.

FE just doesn't offer this.

I think engine makers have to find ways of reducing costs by outsourcing battery development

or

FIA can remove the battery from the the power unit bracket so that teams will have to develop the packs themselves

[zac510]

I definitely agree that opening up development of battery packs would be great, but if you want to open up development and create a strong meritocracy then you have to accept that there will be a lot of losers, teams that will go broke and most probably a great divide between the rich and poor (fastest and slowest). Even in the theory of evolution hundreds of thousands of samples need to take place before genetic advances can prevail. Many good evolutions will be lost to bad luck too.
Formula E only has a handful of teams - they can't afford to lose 1/4 of them in a battery development war because it would kill the championship. Even F1 is pretty marginal on this. If there was such depth in FE or F1 as a second and third divisions full of teams to move into the premier division then the series could probably handle truly open development.
I used to be strongly in favour of open development in F1 but I realise now that it's not viable in the long term.