Tata's U$2500 car

[mahesh248]

We are hoping for it to be a Breakthrough in Indian economy, Hope this car becomes a revolution in Indian Automotive Industry .

[Belatti]

I couldnt imagine freezing colds in Bogotá, too, till searched in Wiki that Bogotá is at 2600 metres over sea level...

I have been in Jujuy province "altiplano", a a 3,500 meters high plateau with peaks of 5,000 meters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jujuy_Province
and I can tell you that when we were at Purmamarca 7 colors hill:

altitude was 2100m and temp in summer was 25C, then went with my car through "Cuesta de Lipan", a short road where you reach a saltlake at 4100m and temp was 12C... so imagine being there in winter... -10C easily!

Regarding TATA car, I dont know where it costs $2500 cause here it will cost $5000 and if you consider Argentine´s average operators wage $700, well, they will continue with bicycle, chinese motorbikes or trains.
As you can see, our government not only will keep $2500 per car sold but also cares about the lack of fuel and the growing traffic jams.

Now, sarcasms out, the FIAT 600 was once very popular here, mostly in the 60s and 70s, and now still has lots of fans. It was similar that this TATA thing but manufactured with better quality and maybe a bit more expensive.

If you ask me, I prefer this old car than a new TATA. It would only need a bit of electronics (inyection) and maybe brake disks at the front. Both would be good to cover short distances (home-work-home) without spending much fuel and are easy to park. Then you could own a real machine to make long trips, this is what some people is doing (I´m talking about people who has got money but care about unnecesary fuel burning and pollution)

[Ciro Pabón]

Old (really old) Fiat 500 L had balancer shafts.

At least a Fiat 500, 1970, that I "opened" ages ago (around 1980) had a balancer gear powered by the timing belt. Most 4 inline, except boxer engines, has two balancing shafts, because of inherent imbalance in that kind of engine.

You can think that both pistons are at the "same side" of the crank. In boxer engines there is one piston at "each side" of the crank and that's why they are naturally balanced.



Yes, it's exactly as Belatti says, Bogotá is high in the Andes. Summer heat is 40 km away, all year round.

A couple of nights every year, in December or August, temperature goes around 0 centigrades, when some gusts of wind from farther latitudes reach us, but we have our "ruanas" for that.

[sebbe]

That's the way to go. Modern auto industry sells you more furniture and electronic gadgets in a car than what's the value of car itself! Car is for transportation, not for warming your butt and having back massaged while browsing the web, playing computer games or watching DVD!

Ford T, VW Beatle, 2CV, FIAT Topolino/500/600, Renault 4CV, Dauphine, 4... those were real means of transportation. Tata Nano is continuing where they've stopped.

Bravo TATA!

Those cars belong to another era, nowadays it's impossible to drive a car like Tata Nano in a safe way. If you have a crash, what's going to protect you? A cheap piece of plastic bumper or the small suitcase you're carrying? I guess your head is going to stop the other car...
Safety first, second efficiency (including environment-friendly technologies), third looks...

I have a 1996 Saab 900 and that's a real car, no fancy electronic gadgets nobody uses, strong as a bunker, reliable, efficient.
The Swedish way, the best way to travel.
Long live SAAB (away from the claws of General Motors)

[mahesh248]

[quote="sebbe"][quote="manchild"]That's the way to go. Modern auto industry sells you more furniture and electronic gadgets in a car than what's the value of car itself! Car is for transportation, not for warming your butt and having back massaged while browsing the web, playing computer games or watching DVD!

Ford T, VW Beatle, 2CV, FIAT Topolino/500/600, Renault 4CV, Dauphine, 4... those were real means of transportation. Tata Nano is continuing where they've stopped.

Bravo TATA![/quote]

Those cars belong to another era, nowadays it's impossible to drive a car like Tata Nano in a safe way. If you have a crash, what's going to protect you? A cheap piece of plastic bumper or the small suitcase you're carrying? I guess your head is going to stop the other car...
Safety first, second efficiency (including environment-friendly technologies), third looks...

This is car is designed to full the Indian needs , and talking about crash test and bumpers , you dont need to worry the average speed in Indian roads is 40 KMPH or lesser so it would he that much of a Head ache ..

[manchild]

Those cars belong to another era, nowadays it's impossible to drive a car like Tata Nano in a safe way. If you have a crash, what's going to protect you? A cheap piece of plastic bumper or the small suitcase you're carrying? I guess your head is going to stop the other car...
Safety first, second efficiency (including environment-friendly technologies), third looks...

It has passed crashed tests! Why would it be so much less safer than European micro cars?

I don't think that people in developed countries understand the need for such car in poor countries. It is not safety first but prevent hunger and poverty first! When you're very poor than you're forced to take risks like using unsafe means of transportation in order to feed your family. Car like Nano will enable exactly that. Peasants and craftsman will be able to transport their products to distant markets, people will get jobs as taxi drivers and be able to get on time to distant work. That's what this car is about, especially the pickup version that will obviously follow.

I have a 1996 Saab 900 and that's a real car, no fancy electronic gadgets nobody uses, strong as a bunker, reliable, efficient.
The Swedish way, the best way to travel.
Long live SAAB (away from the claws of General Motors)

You can't judge typical poor Indian from your standpoint. You probably make more in one year than what he makes in a lifetime. They can't afford to buy Saab. Not in their wildest dreams.

So what they should do, not accept Nano simply because it lacks safety compared to modern family sedans? Were VW Beatle, 2CV, FIAT Topolino/500/600, Renault 4CV, Dauphine, 4, Trabant, Mini Morris... safer than Nano? No. It still didn't prevent millions of people to use them for decades and develop economy of their societies. You can't expect a country to be motorized from rickshaws to EURO NCAP 5 star latest models without decades of transitional period that will include cars like Nano.

[Ciro Pabón]

Those cars belong to another era, nowadays it's impossible to drive a car like Tata Nano in a safe way. If you have a crash, what's going to protect you? A cheap piece of plastic bumper or the small suitcase you're carrying?...

Sorry for intruding again in this thread. Yes, the idea is to have a cheap piece of plastic protecting your life. Is that, or an expensive piece of plastic, or no plastic at all. It uses a Bosch engine, but I imagine that it will have a price doubled for the European market, once (and if) it is made to comply with crash and emission regulations now in place, a thing I don't think Tata will do.

Nano competition right now is the Maruti/Suzuki 800, not the 1969 Saab. Its crashworthiness must be the same or very similar (it has a difference in length of inches).

Maruti Suzuki 800: 42 mpg vs 57 mpg for Nano


I don't think neither car can compete with the wildly expensive Mercedes Smart, which is the only car, as short as these, that pass European NCAP crash specifications.

Look at the nose of this car: can you stop a car with 30 cm of chassis and comply with NCAP? I don't think so...


Well, yes you can, but it costs you 4 or 5 times Nano's price and you will drive the ugliest Mercedes on the face of the Earth: Mercedes Smart


BTW, I remember well that Saab had an issue with emission control in the 70's. Saab used to use a 3 cylinder, two stroke engine that did not comply with US 1969 (!) emission regulations. They changed to the 99 engine in the early 70's, which also did not comply with regulations expected for the mid 70's. This motivated Saab to build their famous 99 engine with Bosch injection, that lead the way toward a world of new, leaner, more efficient, less contaminating cars: it used to be the only engine that passed California regulations (along with Honda CCV, highly complex, stratified chamber design). And what a nice car the 900 resulted to be, but its origins were humbler than we believe nowadays.

And Manchild is right: only when people in the developing world start to build cars for themselves they'll get the kind of prosperity Ford brought to US. They will get a better car than a Saab eventually.

[manchild]

Well, yes you can, but it costs you 4 or 5 times Nano's price.

I think that Smart costs even more, 6 to 7 times more than Nano.

[Ciro Pabón]

What? A Smart? And miss the opportunity to buy a Tang Hua?

This "beauty" only costs U$5000 and it has regenerative power, "antiskid devices" (tyres, I imagine), “alarm of remnant quantity of electric/voltage” (this probably means: battery meter), “rainbrush” (the best synonym we’ve ever heard for “wipers”) and “upgrading vision” (no idea).

It also has "all-permanent-magnetism and all-suspending technology, which can increase 20% continuously driving mileage for electric motor car. The maturation and development of the technology will establish consistent foundation for the supreme objective of the development of electric motor car–flywheel energy storage technology. It means the electric vehicle era has truly occurred." Uh-huh.

Tremble, Saab! The electric vehicle era has truly occurred! All your bases are belong to us. The only thing I don't like too much are car babes in kimono (I prefer bikinis).

[Belatti]

JAJA Ciro, good car, it seems to have escaped from a Hanna-Barbera 70´s cartoon!!!

I had to tell to mahesh248 that a direct impact at 40 KPH without your belt on would mean severe injury or death, not just a head ache. And I would expect that people that are not used to drive forget to use it. Average 40KPH means 80KPH tops, too, remember!

Beyond that, Bravo to Indians! I would like my country could make a car brand and start growing like they are doing now! Car specs or details are just details that time will change.

[sebbe]

So what they should do, not accept Nano simply because it lacks safety compared to modern family sedans? Were VW Beatle, 2CV, FIAT Topolino/500/600, Renault 4CV, Dauphine, 4, Trabant, Mini Morris... safer than Nano? No. It still didn't prevent millions of people to use them for decades and develop economy of their societies. You can't expect a country to be motorized from rickshaws to EURO NCAP 5 star latest models without decades of transitional period that will include cars like Nano.

I don't expect them to buy a SAAB, certainly. But you can´t say "Go, India, Go!!", as you said for building a crap of a car and trying to sell it like a premium.
And why should them built unsafe, eco-unfriendly cars just because we used to build cars like the ones you mentioned?
This is just a trick of Mr Tata to fill his pockets, just that. Besides he doesn't care about protecting his reputation... Modern Herny Ford my shorts!

[HKS]

That's the way to go. Modern auto industry sells you more furniture and electronic gadgets in a car than what's the value of car itself! Car is for transportation, not for warming your butt and having back massaged while browsing the web, playing computer games or watching DVD!

Ford T, VW Beatle, 2CV, FIAT Topolino/500/600, Renault 4CV, Dauphine, 4... those were real means of transportation. Tata Nano is continuing where they've stopped.

Bravo TATA!

Those cars belong to another era, nowadays it's impossible to drive a car like Tata Nano in a safe way. If you have a crash, what's going to protect you? A cheap piece of plastic bumper or the small suitcase you're carrying? I guess your head is going to stop the other car...
Safety first, second efficiency (including environment-friendly technologies), third looks...

I have a 1996 Saab 900 and that's a real car, no fancy electronic gadgets nobody uses, strong as a bunker, reliable, efficient.
The Swedish way, the best way to travel.
Long live SAAB (away from the claws of General Motors)

What safety do you get on a 2 wheeler??

This car is meant to replace a 2 wheeler and is way more safer than a 2 wheeler.

So the driver can wear a hemet

and the car has passed the safety test too.

Great job by ratan Tata.

He kept his promise. =D> =D> =D>

[manchild]

I don't expect them to buy a SAAB, certainly. But you can´t say "Go, India, Go!!", as you said for building a crap of a car and trying to sell it like a premium. And why should them built unsafe, eco-unfriendly cars just because we used to build cars like the ones you mentioned?
This is just a trick of Mr Tata to fill his pockets, just that. Besides he doesn't care about protecting his reputation... Modern Herny Ford my shorts!

Can you please give some proofs and valid explanations why you think Nano is crap, unsafe and not eco friendly? Small car doesn't mean that it is unsafe because it is small.

Chrysler Voyager is the crap de la crap when it matters safety and it is a huge van.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPm4hEp- ... re=related[/youtube]

Nano looks more than good for that price, it has passed crash tests so it isn't unsafe and it has Bosch engine that is certainly up to certain eco standards. They could have built better car, safer car, eco friendlier car but such car would cost more than anyone could pay for it. Nano wasn't designed badly to turn as it turned out to be, but designed to fit unto certain price range so that people who can't afford better cars could buy any car. It was made to be bought not to be stared at in the newspapers pictures by those who can't buy it.

Will TATA become new Henry Ford is yet to be seen. Modern US industry that makes 2-3 tonne heavy cars with multi liter inefficient engines, driven by one person from home to work and back certainly is not closer Ford's vision.

[Carlos]

I've read a few articles on the Tata Nano and it meets 2004 Euro 111 crash test standards, and mentioned compliance with an unspecified frontal offset impact and side impact standards. Very small details can make a great deal of difference in structural strength, simple sheet metal ribbing, corrugation, installing boxed sections of sheet metal ... all make a fantastic difference. On a biological level ... an insect has fabulous crush resistance, combined with extreme light weight; because it is actually an exoskeleton, an exterior monocoque, of a resin protein, cuticle, overall a very strong structure. Formula 1 car's CF monocoque's basically copy this organic model, why not, to some extent the Nano and certainly, to a greater extent future designs?. A structure does not need to be thick or heavy to be crash resistant - just well designed.

[Carlos]

More on the Tang Hua

This roughly nine-foot-long, Chinese-made electric car uses state-of-the-'50s lead-acid batteries and moves forward in one of two speeds: normal and performance. The former is good for up to around 28 mph, while performance mode kicks it up a half-notch or so to nearly 40 mph. Recharging is accomplished in a brisk five to seven hours.