Silly Season 2016/2017

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ALO_Power
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Jolle wrote:
Diesel wrote:Why is it so improbable? He wanted to race for them before but their driver line up was locked in, so he's been sitting at McLaren hoping they come up with a winner, or a winning seat becomes available. Merc don't need to buy him out, he can buy himself out. I doubt there would be a repeat of '07, and even if there was, Merc would still win the WCC as McLaren would have had they not had spygate.

Alonso went to McLaren because he wasn't able to join Mercedes, and he knew Ferrari weren't going to beat them any time soon. Now he CAN join Mercedes, and he probably knows McLaren aren't going to beat them any time soon.

It's between Alonso and a rookie IMO.
Alonso on track is still in the top three drivers at the moment but he comes with some corporate downsides. If things don't go his way he isn't very, how to put it... tactical. He pushes the team hard, but then goes beyond good teammenship.. Plus, with Hamilton under contract for 2017, there is no need to have a fast but volatile Fernando in the team.

The Mercedes team would much rather play it long term and safe, then go for short term succes and/or controversies. HAM is still under contract for 2017/18, so two years to find/form someone who can lead the team in 2019 and beyond. If Alonso isn't already past his prime, he will be by then. They need a driver like RIC, VES, OCO or VDN in the team by 2018 to make that happen, which means 2017 will be a bridge year, filled by a steady driver like BOT or an extra learning/developing year for WER.
ALO in the car is the fan wet dream, but from a teams perspective a silly move. It will be williams 1986 and mclaren 2007 all over again.
People keep spreading the same nonsense. Well 2007 is never going to happen again as we told, since 1) both drivers are mature and proven and 2) the team is not McLaren, because it was McLaren's fault causing the mess behind the scenes. If Alonso wants to join Mercedes and Mercedes doesn't pick him they will make one of the stupidest moves ever made. Verstappen and Ricciardo were already knocking No.2 car's door (Rosberg's) even with this dominance. Imagine what will happen next year... With a rookie or a mediocre driver only Hamilton will have to do the job and Hamilton is not always there (as Button told). So, the constructors won't be hard to snatch from Mercedes, unless Ricciardo and Verstappen have their own fights. Getting Alonso back is a no brainer for such a top team that won't have the same advantage. People who say the opposite probably are Alonso's haters :mrgreen: (at least the ones who repeat the same inaccurate arguments.) Also, to the people that say it's impossible, don't forget that he almost joined them in 2014 but there was no place.

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FrukostScones
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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basti313 wrote:
FrukostScones wrote:2018 ALO and VET are real possibilities at Merc.

But 2017 ..., ALO would be fun, but I don't think it will happen.
Toto just said he wants a junior driver. That puts it back to Ocon and Wehrlein.
Sauce?
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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ALO_Power wrote:
Jolle wrote:
Diesel wrote:Why is it so improbable? He wanted to race for them before but their driver line up was locked in, so he's been sitting at McLaren hoping they come up with a winner, or a winning seat becomes available. Merc don't need to buy him out, he can buy himself out. I doubt there would be a repeat of '07, and even if there was, Merc would still win the WCC as McLaren would have had they not had spygate.

Alonso went to McLaren because he wasn't able to join Mercedes, and he knew Ferrari weren't going to beat them any time soon. Now he CAN join Mercedes, and he probably knows McLaren aren't going to beat them any time soon.

It's between Alonso and a rookie IMO.
Alonso on track is still in the top three drivers at the moment but he comes with some corporate downsides. If things don't go his way he isn't very, how to put it... tactical. He pushes the team hard, but then goes beyond good teammenship.. Plus, with Hamilton under contract for 2017, there is no need to have a fast but volatile Fernando in the team.

The Mercedes team would much rather play it long term and safe, then go for short term succes and/or controversies. HAM is still under contract for 2017/18, so two years to find/form someone who can lead the team in 2019 and beyond. If Alonso isn't already past his prime, he will be by then. They need a driver like RIC, VES, OCO or VDN in the team by 2018 to make that happen, which means 2017 will be a bridge year, filled by a steady driver like BOT or an extra learning/developing year for WER.
ALO in the car is the fan wet dream, but from a teams perspective a silly move. It will be williams 1986 and mclaren 2007 all over again.
People keep spreading the same nonsense. Well 2007 is never going to happen again as we told, since 1) both drivers are mature and proven and 2) the team is not McLaren, because it was McLaren's fault causing the mess behind the scenes. If Alonso wants to join Mercedes and Mercedes doesn't pick him they will make one of the stupidest moves ever made. Verstappen and Ricciardo were already knocking No.2 car's door (Rosberg's) even with this dominance. Imagine what will happen next year... With a rookie or a mediocre driver only Hamilton will have to do the job and Hamilton is not always there (as Button told). So, the constructors won't be hard to snatch from Mercedes, unless Ricciardo and Verstappen have their own fights. Getting Alonso back is a no brainer for such a top team that won't have the same advantage. People who say the opposite probably are Alonso's haters :mrgreen: (at least the ones who repeat the same inaccurate arguments.) Also, to the people that say it's impossible, don't forget that he almost joined them in 2014 but there was no place.
With 1986/2007 I didn't mean the Hamilton-Alonso controversies but when the field is close, two "number ones" are taking to many points away from each other.

Dazed1
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Nico's quote about the pressure and stress of this season would certainly be echoed by Niki and Toto. I would be amazed if they went for "two number ones" instead of a talented number two.

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FrukostScones
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Imagine Merc only 3rd best car in 2017.
What will a "number 2" driver achieve with it?
Slot behind HAM for nothing?
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

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WaikeCU
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Dazed1 wrote:Nico's quote about the pressure and stress of this season would certainly be echoed by Niki and Toto. I would be amazed if they went for "two number ones" instead of a talented number two.
...or I remember the press mentioned they have a team psychiatrist to handle the mental pressure of both drivers. I think driving for Merc must be quite (mentally) straining if you see how they were managed.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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The problem with driving for the number one team is that if you don't win you're marked as no good. That must be extremely stressful. No one currently expects Ferrari (for example) to win so if you get good points you're seen as doing a good job. Doing a merely decent job in the W07 you're seen as wasting your opportunity.

That's going to be difficult for anyone to carry for a long period. When you're a driven person like an F1 driver that's going to be even harder.

That's the double edged sword of being in the best car.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Gaz.
Gaz.
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Just_a_fan wrote:The problem with driving for the number one team is that if you don't win you're marked as no good. That must be extremely stressful. No one currently expects Ferrari (for example) to win so if you get good points you're seen as doing a good job. Doing a merely decent job in the W07 you're seen as wasting your opportunity.

That's going to be difficult for anyone to carry for a long period. When you're a driven person like an F1 driver that's going to be even harder.

That's the double edged sword of being in the best car.
Perhaps that's another reason why Wolff doesn't want Werhlien in the car, if Hamilton beats him 20-0 next year his career would be over before it has begun, regardless of how well he's actually driven.
Forza Jules

hemichromis
hemichromis
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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If Hamilton beats Werhlein 20-0 his racing career should be over!

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ringo
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Alonso is staying with Honda. His contract is air tight. 3 years locked in.
I would like to see him partner Lewis, but it's a pointless partnership. Mercedes don't need a top driver to get the car on the podium.
They just need a good driver that can keep the pace of the car and drive to the deltas.
Nico isn't really considered a good overtaker, and the only time his speed was needed to salvage a race, he had to overtake a few people. The speed of the car made it all possible.
Most of the drivers fighting for Nico's seat are better overtakers than Nico, so i don't think mercedes need to worry about that aspect.
Aslo those guys are better racers as well. Another positive.

The only advantage Nico has was qualifying speed. At no point did he demonstrate relentless speed, or overtaking, or racing, like a Perez or a Sainz, or a Bottas. Nico doesn't even like to chase other drivers.
So i'm fine with whoever Mercedes chooses. It's really not a big deal. If they dont qualify consistently as Nico, they can race to the podium.

Hamilton as #1 with a Perez or Bottas would do just fine. A Pascal as #2 is also not a crime. If he can get points in a Manor, he is fast enough to podium in a mercedes. Alonso is overkill and doesn't achieve anything. Especially when the redbull boys and ferrari boys will be fighting each other. Mercedes stands to have more success if they have a peaceful team while giving Lewis clear leadership.
For Sure!!

BanMeToo
BanMeToo
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Let Jenson go, jeez. His time has passed. I'm glad he's making room in F1 for other drivers.

Far
Far
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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My prediction will be Alonso in the Mercedes team Berni and the new owners are pushin for this and is what the fans arond the world want too this battels will save the F1 and will make then legendary for decades like Prost and Senna still are now. And Mercedes know every body rememenber the Mac Laren Honda for this days even this bot driver are here in F1 for the red and whyte cars of Mac Laren Honda.
Mercedes Alonso Hamilton Wolff Niki can do HISTORY NOW.

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nevill3
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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I think it will be Paul di Resta, He has the experience, is currently a test driver for a Mercedes powered team and has strong links with Mercedes.
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dans79
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Far wrote:My prediction will be Alonso in the Mercedes team Berni and the new owners are pushin for this and is what the fans arond the world want too this battels will save the F1 and will make then legendary for decades like Prost and Senna still are now. And Mercedes know every body rememenber the Mac Laren Honda for this days even this bot driver are here in F1 for the red and whyte cars of Mac Laren Honda.
problem is Honda doesn't care what senile Bernie or the new owners wants.

I have a better shot of ending up the second Merc seat next year than Alonso does.
201 105 104 9 9 7

Manoah2u
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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ringo wrote:Alonso is staying with Honda. His contract is air tight. 3 years locked in.
why on earth do people still hang on to this nonsense?
there are already sources out that mention Alonso has a buy-out clause of 23 million pounds.
Is that air tight? no it isn't, it is open for money.
Then, nobody here knows whether Alonso has signed a contract which has a clause that by the end
of the 2nd year the car is not capable of winning, he is free to leave. I am thoroughly sure that clause exists.

Which means that buy-out issue doesnt even need to be 'exploited'.

pre-finally, Mercedes themselves have claimed Alonso is an option. If it was air-tight, there would be no discussion.

finally, and this really is the nail in the coffin,
There was serious discussion of Alonso going to Mercedes before the Rosberg events of late.
Even more; Mercedes literally stated that if either Lewis' or Rosberg' contract discussions came to a halt,
rather; they couldn't work things out - then they would go for Alonso.

which utterly means, that Alonso IS an option, IS available and does NOT have an air-tight contract.

And again, even IF the buyout clause would be existant and neccesary, then Mercedes would pay that amount
and still get proper money back from PR alone. They'd make a buck that Nico could never get them, and a guaranteed
driver that will get you as many WCC points as the car is capable of.

Do i want Alonso in there above anybody else? Hell yeah!
Is Alonso not an option? hell no - he's their very best option to choose from right now.

The ONLY thing possibly preventing Mercedes from engaging into a partnership with Alonso, is the direction and possibilities for the long-term future.
THAT's where a driver like Bottas has more potential - theoretically that is.

Alonso would home in fantastic results and perhaps even a very own WDC for 2 years give or take. After that, i can see Alonso losing interest and simply get 'too much of a veteran' to really continue, whereas Bottas surely has about 4-5 years tops to be accomodated, and 'shaped' into the angle they want him to - making him a handy nr2 driver to Lewis, and by the time Lewis calls it quits with Mercedes, he'll be ready for either a more professional role, or to help their next 'star driver'.

The problem again with Bottas however, is that i don't think bottas fancies or sees himself as a Nr.2 driver.
So if we look at that little pickle again, then you simply once again return for the best solution right now:
Alonso.

Not a single doubt in my mind. Mercedes would have to be crazy not to sign him. It really is their only 'solution' to the really big problem Rosberg has left them with.
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while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"