Why early 90s cars couldn't go flat out through Eau rouge

[misterbeam]

I'm sorry if this has been already asked, but i'm trying to understand why those cars (91-93) weren't able to go flat out in that corner even with their high downforce, could it be the track surface ? high kerbs? cars bottoming out? or just bad tyres ?

Please, share your thoughts

[Pierce89]

I'm sorry if this has been already asked, but i'm trying to understand why those cars (91-93) weren't able to go flat out in that corner even with their high downforce, could it be the track surface ? high kerbs? cars bottoming out? or just bad tyres ?

Please, share your thoughts

Eau Rouge used to be tighter.

[NathanOlder]

Maybe the downforce wasnt as high as you think ?

[misterbeam]

I know from a very reliable source that one of the 91 cars produced around 2000kg of downforce at 300 Kph on the highest downforce package. It really surprised me as i wasn't expecting that much, but we can't know how sensitive was the car to ride height changes

[Facts Only]

You say 2000kg on the highest downforce package, but Spa is generally a lower downforce track.

[dobbster71]

This snippet from Formula1.com (https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/feat ... rouge.html) gives a good explanation:

"Eau Rouge was the scene of several major crashes in the Nineties. In 1993 Alex Zanardi was lucky to escape major injury when his Lotus suffered a mechanical issue and smashed into the wall midway up the hill. That incident increased speculation that, for safety reasons, the corner might one day have to be re-profiled to a chicane - a suggestion that outraged Ayrton Senna. "If you take away Eau Rouge," the five-time Belgian winner said, "you take away the reason why I do this..." The sad irony was that it was Senna’s death - and the subsequent safety backlash - that led to a chicane being installed at the corner in 1994. The section would return to its visceral best the following year, albeit with additional tyre barriers, gravel traps and run-off areas. In 1999 the wall was moved back from the inside of the right hander, prompting Jacques Villeneuve to say: “The corner’s easier now - visually it’s not as impressive as it used to be. It’s going to be flat-out…” The Canadian’s words would come back to haunt him. In qualifying Villeneuve and BAR team mate Ricciardo Zonta dared one another to take the corner without lifting - and both suffered massive accidents. However, advances in aerodynamic performance meant that the following year many found that Eau Rouge could indeed be taken flat in top gear on low fuel."

So, a mixture of track changes & aerodynamic advances have made Eau Rouge flat out, though I miss the days of "which driver has the biggest balls"!!

[PlatinumZealot]

Do we have another corner where you need big balls?

[NL_Fer]

Cars are more stable these days, the used to jump and unsettle more. The end before starting Kemmel, the tilt reduces, unloading the downforce, because the weight wants to go up in the air.

Magnussen lost it on a bump, caused to much inbalance in the car.

[George-Jung]

Maybe downforce levels where high back than, but what about chassis strength and flex.. also suspensions settings etc.. for sure back than that quality wasn't the same as present day cars.

[Henk]

Do we have another corner where you need big balls?

Baku before the straightp. If you're talking about a corner that was full throttle and has a big risk. Vettel was asking Rosberg if he made it last year.

I think the Dunlop curve is also on the edge of full throttle but not the same high speed.

Silverstone has a couple of corners that would be awesome if the punishment for running wide was big enough.

[Fulcrum]

Do we have another corner where you need big balls?

Maybe not, but I'll add some of the 'bigger ball' corners.

Suzuka
1st corner
Degner curves
130R

Spa
Pouhon
Blanchimont

GB
Copse
Maggotts & Becketts complex

Brazil
Ferradura

Monaco
The tunnel
Swimming Pool chicane

All historic.

I think this really highlights the problem with modern circuit design. While a lot of the new circuits incorporate elevation changes and a variety of corners (angles, cambers, etc...), they only pose a technical challenge to the driver.

I.e. the only limitation posed by modern track layouts is the theoretical upper bound dictated by the car/tyre combination, and the ability of the driver to approach that theoretical limit consistently.

There is not even a hint of personal restriction at play; self-preservation in other words. A 'brain' limit suggesting you shouldn't go faster, even though theory dictates you could; driver differentiation through 'bravery' no longer exists as it once may have.

I guess, given trends toward increasing safety and vehicle sophistication, this is to be expected.

[PlatinumZealot]

Hmm I wont say the GB corners are ballsy cause there is not risk if u go off. Never saw silverstone as dangerous circuit....

You forgot the wall of champions!

[Fulcrum]

Yeah, that could be added for sure.

True about GB. I included them mainly because they generally separate drivers with a bit more nerve, even though the consequences of a mistake aren't that problematic.

[ChrisF1]

They always deny that Eau Rouge has been reproduced, its always "No, we just moved the scenery" and think we will fall for it.

[Pierce89]

Do we have another corner where you need big balls?

Not safety wise but running wide in t9 at Barca definitely punishes you.